tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post269783839971122493..comments2024-03-29T22:00:02.999+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Why I accept the SolasPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-56779883981773727862013-11-30T17:50:10.703+13:002013-11-30T17:50:10.703+13:00Hi Alison
I concur with your answer in nearly ever...Hi Alison<br />I concur with your answer in nearly everyway. Thank you. It is most acceptable. I particularly like your two word alternative to sola fide, Jesus Christ!<br /><br />Where I would continue to differ from you is:<br /><br />I do not think there is a straw man at work when one labours to restate the grace of God and the call to faith. There is no need to think of Catholics or Catholic theology: sadly I have found many Anglican parishioners who misunderstand the gospel of grace.<br /><br />Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-16792787662273978662013-11-30T11:09:37.582+13:002013-11-30T11:09:37.582+13:00My points are intended to be serious.
I could not...My points are intended to be serious.<br /><br />I could not answer Peter's question briefly, as I think that reducing salvation to two words is part of the very issue. And if I were to choose two words it would not be yours which are laden with controversy and misunderstanding. I would choose Jesus Christ.<br /><br />The whole New Testament (and Bible) and church's life is the answer to your question. And as soon as you reduce the answer to your two words you immediately have to re-garnish your reduction.<br /><br />I might also start with asking a question about the question - what do you mean by saved?<br /><br />As to this being a pastoral response to those who are "not sure that they are good enough for God" - I would speak of and share God's love - not give them a Latin lesson.<br /><br />I think yours is an answer to a question people are not asking, a response to a theory no one is teaching. Where is anyone actually teaching a “merit counting”supplement to grace? Straw men. Generally anti-catholic prejudices with no foundation in actual teaching.<br /><br />I would not sever faith from baptism. I would not sever salvation from transformation. I would not sever being saved from being a member of the church. I would not quote one scripture to contradict another or set Paul against Jesus or make the Gospels not be the gospel.<br /><br />AlisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-86694906234108980862013-11-29T15:56:15.126+13:002013-11-29T15:56:15.126+13:00Hi Alison (and Bryden)
An image that comes to mind...Hi Alison (and Bryden)<br />An image that comes to mind is that of a very expensive object such as a house. God gives us the house in response to our trust in him. We do not earn it, we cannot save for it, we cannot take out a mortgage to pay for it. But having received the house the question arises what we are going to do with it. Are we even going to live in it? Might we destroy it through some kind of complacency which allows it to burn down or fall to rack and ruin?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-47177823594951307122013-11-29T15:07:31.533+13:002013-11-29T15:07:31.533+13:00The trouble with any kind of “merit counting”suppl...The trouble with any kind of “merit counting”supplement to grace and so faith is that it - and anything akin to it - undermines: (1) sheer grace as demonstrated and declared in Jesus; and (2) our ability to have real confidence in that sheer gift of redemption in Christ Jesus; for (3) we may not be thrown back upon ourselves in any way <i>without</i> undermining 1 & 2.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36758117543431739462013-11-29T11:49:02.214+13:002013-11-29T11:49:02.214+13:00I think Alison we are talking past each other - as...I think Alison we are talking past each other - as well as poking a bit of fun/holes, as Peter suggests! When you say: my “‘we have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved’ makes good sense to me/you, but seems diametrically opposite to what Peter seems to be saying,” I’m not sure you get the real point of my saying it, which is: (1) we are all historical creatures; (2) as such, faith is never a freeze-framed affair, a once-off act, but an ongoing expression of a living relationship of trust; (3) yet that very on-going business will be a series of ups and down etc. whereby such things as repentance and renewal and so on are necessary. But these things are not as you view them, as supplements to faith, but are in fact as AW says, due “symptoms”, the appropriate “practice” of faith - given our historical natures and given our natures as <i>simul justus et peccator”</i> [simultaneously justified and yet sinners], as the Luther correctly stated, given again this historical nature of things.<br /><br />The real issue here is what is called eschatology: God has brought in the End with the Coming of Jesus; but that End is also “hidden in Christ”, Col 3:1-4. So that the remaining ‘time’ between the past historical mission of Jesus, 7 BC - 30 AD, say, and the future Return/Second Coming/Parousia/Appearing has the very dynamic of faith Peter - and I and AW - are suggesting. And the entire point of the Reformation revival of Paul’s theology of justification (at least one key element of it) is to allow us humans <b>real confidence</b> in God’s utter grace to redeem us: he has so redeemed us and he will so redeem us - Romans ch.8 in its entirety (as well as Eph 2:4ff) is the crux! Sola fide is mere short-hand for this; but also polemic against other views that would suggest a “merit counter” is (also/still) required.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36965718340244781192013-11-29T10:03:01.501+13:002013-11-29T10:03:01.501+13:00Hi Alison
There is no straw man existing when rea...Hi Alison<br /><br />There is no straw man existing when real people say that (a) they are Christians (b) they are not sure that they are good enough for God. Whatever the source of that belief it is sad and unnecessary. Sola fide is a simple attempt by Luther and other readers of Scripture to offer assurance that if our thinking is like that then it need not be so for it misunderstands the grace of God towards us.<br /><br />In the mysterious and paradoxical purposes of God, as the Ephesians text makes clear, faith is itself a gift from God. Rightly you raise the objection that our total depravity as abject sinners places faith and its sincerity in peril.<br /><br />Now, you have had quite a bit of fun poking holes at my weak apologia for sola fide. Would you be kind and tell me and other readers what your view of how we can be saved is?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-72410933556559535822013-11-29T09:44:33.307+13:002013-11-29T09:44:33.307+13:00Peter,
I think you are creating false dualism whe...Peter,<br /><br />I think you are creating false dualism where none exist. No Catholics or Orthodox are trying to excise the Ephesians text from the Bible. No one is terming Ephesians an “epistle of straw”. Your question “How many works would save us?” or “How would you know when you had done enough good works to be sure of salvation?” are just straw-men questions. You have to hedge around your “sola fide” with so many, many qualifications that it is deeply buried and no longer saying what people are hearing. Your blessed assurance is also hedged with so many “being saved; will be saved” and actions you have to take (works) to preserve your faith intact. Not to forget your requirement that your faith be “sincere” – in a total-depravity context how can you ever assure the sincerity you are needing for blessed assurance? <br /><br />AlisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-19259824400042930202013-11-28T19:03:14.584+13:002013-11-28T19:03:14.584+13:00This discussion is why I prefer to describe Christ...This discussion is why I prefer to describe Christianity to my children as becoming "part of God's Kingdom / family" or "friends with God" as opposed to "being a good person" or "going to heaven". Both of the latter descriptions focus on "me" (what I do, what I get), with an impersonal connection to God.<br /><br />We are not merely "forgiven" or "redeemed", but we are forgiven and redeemed into God's family to participate in his work. Taking either the start (forgiveness) or end (work) alone results in missing the focus of the gospel.Andrew Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-52122325358831397842013-11-28T16:45:20.120+13:002013-11-28T16:45:20.120+13:00Hi Alison
I would be delighted to find that all C...Hi Alison<br /><br />I would be delighted to find that all Christians agree on the way of salvation. If that does or does not need describing with 'sola fide' then it matters not.<br /><br />But all Christians do not appear to agree and thus sola fide may be helpful to distinguish those who think it is about faith alone from those who think it is about faith + works.<br /><br />I agree with Bryden on have been, are being, will be saved. I think he would agree with me that at all times faith is paramount.<br /><br />In the end what I am trying to do is to express a passage such as the following from Ephesians 2:<br /><br />"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; cit is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."<br /><br />If sola fide is not relevant to such a wonderful expression of the gospel of God's grace then we should drop it.<br /><br />However I think it is relevant.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-14256863567349588652013-11-28T16:06:17.530+13:002013-11-28T16:06:17.530+13:00I am just not bright enough to have any blessed as...I am just not bright enough to have any blessed assurance that I understand Bryden’s response to me. I have no idea why he is telling me about issues he has with another website, and his “we have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved” makes good sense to me, but seems diametrically opposite to what Peter seems to be saying. Peter, you now agree with Andrew, that “faith is something that you do” – which sounds like a work to me! As far as I can see, for some unfathomable reason, you want to insist in using the words sola fide, but when pressed to explain what you mean you end up saying nothing different in effect to those who do not insist in using those words. And then there’s James 2:24 (the only time sola fide is mentioned in the Bible) “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” <br /><br />AlisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36917192506138303142013-11-28T15:01:42.794+13:002013-11-28T15:01:42.794+13:00Hi Alison, Bryden and Andrew W
Yes, my thinking c...Hi Alison, Bryden and Andrew W<br /><br />Yes, my thinking could do with sharpening up. But Andrew W puts his finger on the button I most want to press: no salvation by merit, by faith ALONE. When I stand before the Lord in judgment my appeal will not be to my perseverance in the faith nor to my good works which issue from faith in Christ who is at work in me, solely on Jesus' merits, only on his effective work on the cross, on nothing else will I rely in the full glare of God's holy judgment.<br /><br />If in this life I wish to delude myself that I have sincere faith in Jesus Christ while knowingly persisting in sin, intentionally disobeying the Father, resisting the Spirit, etc, then I need to check into the Wisdom Clinic and find out what faith means, for it is about throwing the whole of myself on the mercy of God found in Christ, a surrender to the will of God which is incompatible with refinding my own will and entrusting my life to it.<br /><br />As Bryden might say about the beloved "therefore" text of Romans and its solas, 12:1-2, the trouble with living sacrifices is that they tend to try to crawl off the altar :)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-89128514140670186322013-11-28T14:21:59.588+13:002013-11-28T14:21:59.588+13:00Alison,
Contrasted with the traditional understan...Alison,<br /><br />Contrasted with the traditional understanding, you seem to have some confusions.<br /><br />Firstly, all those things Peter describes are not faith. Rather, they are the practice of faith, or perhaps the symptoms of faith. Because faith is something that you do. What is it that you do? Recognise that you are welcomed by the Father not on your merits but on his mercy, and live according to this.<br /><br />"Faith alone" is about the total absence of a merit counter. There is no threshold of good works that qualifies you for God's people nor keeps you in God's people, save that which Christ has already done. But salvation is not just about avoiding judgement; it's about being part of God's people. And one of the privileges of being God's people is to do good works (Eph 2), and thus our faith manifests outwardly as good works.Andrew Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-80223404284293369962013-11-28T10:40:58.034+13:002013-11-28T10:40:58.034+13:00On another site, Alison, Bosco rapped me over the ...On another site, Alison, Bosco rapped me over the knuckles for using the word “disingenuous” ... That said; the solas are not to be treated quite as you seem to imply - as if they were not what they are.<br /><br />You and I are historical creatures, as well as being fallen creatures. That means one key dimension of our redemption will reflect that. Just so, the line: we have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved. For I am most fond of Robert Jenson’s insight: “God does not create a world that thereupon has a history; he creates a history that is a world, in that it is purposive and so makes a whole.” Which also leads to his other profound insight that a crucial feature of triune eternity is divine faithfulness among the Three - across created time as well as across his own eternity.<br /><br />All in all: as RCs also say, faith is a gift of grace. More specifically, “in Christ Jesus” we are given to share in the human faith of Jesus Christ. So, while each and all of us may experience our ups and downs, successes and failures, HIS divine-human faithfulness so embraces that our wee faith again and again, the size of a mustard seed, prevails. In the end, <i>sola gratia</i> is but the flip side of <i>sola fide</i>, and vice versa, all predicated upon <i>Solus Christus</i>! For as Athanasius was also fond of saying: the Incarnate Son as Jesus “ministered the things of God to man and the things of man to God”.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-78522819585766341972013-11-28T10:21:26.178+13:002013-11-28T10:21:26.178+13:00I do agree with Alison - that so many solas add up...I do agree with Alison - that so many solas add up to rather a lot of dependency mechanisms - are are therefore no longer 'sola'.<br /><br />If I were to ask: What would be the most reliable 'sola', (if one were able to limit the avenues of salvation) that Jesus Christ is the supreme 'Sola'; would I be missing out on attributing to the separate Person of The Most Holy Trinity of Persons?<br /><br />I prefer the idea of the fecundity of The Trinity - each relying on the co-relationship of the Others. This sounds more like the Body of Christ - reflecting God's Being.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27478095772628148662013-11-28T08:00:57.471+13:002013-11-28T08:00:57.471+13:00Have I got this clear, Peter:
Salvation is by fai...Have I got this clear, Peter:<br /><br />Salvation is by faith PLUS no persisting, unrepented sin, plus daily confession and repentance, plus not giving faith up, plus renewing my relationship with Jesus daily, plus retaining faith in the face of tests and trials, plus living life in a manner which is worthy of the gospel – and all that is called “faith alone”? And this is what you preach. And this gives people who hear your preaching assurance of their salvation, because no one ever is uncertain about any of the components of your requirements for faith “alone”? No scruples? No doubts? Even though your use of “alone” is some sort of technical, theological sense without any connection to any other uses of the word “alone”.<br /><br />AlisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-1059467990476879722013-11-27T18:26:18.233+13:002013-11-27T18:26:18.233+13:00Hi Alison
Your question: Going back to your origi...Hi Alison<br /><br />Your question: Going back to your original question, then, How would you know, Peter, when you had not persisted in sin sufficiently (or gravely) to be sure of salvation? PRC: The New Testament clearly teaches us to stop sinning. Any persisting, unrepented sin would throw my salvation into doubt. I recommend daily confession and repentance.<br /><br />Your question: re Luke 10:25: Are you suggesting Jesus is mistaken about what we must do to inherit eternal life?! Or are you now prepared to drop the solas? PRC: Jesus counsels perfection but is it achievable? Paul's and Luther's point is that it is not. Is all hopeless? NO! The same Jesus says, 'You faith has saved you.'<br /><br />Your question: How would you know, Peter, when your faith is sincere enough to be sure of salvation? PRC: my faith does not have to be "sincere enough", just "sincere." It is sincere when I do not give it up, when I renew my relationship with Jesus daily, when I retain that faith in the face of tests and trials, when I live life in a manner which is worthy of the gospel which has taught me sola fide.<br /><br />What do you think would constitute sincere faith?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-39529031543719188562013-11-27T17:02:45.594+13:002013-11-27T17:02:45.594+13:00Thanks for your responses, Peter. Very enlightenin...Thanks for your responses, Peter. Very enlightening!<br /><br />Let’s pursue your reference to Hebrews, particularly Hebrews 10:26 where salvation is lost not because you do not have faith, but by sin – not doing good works. <br /><br />Going back to your original question, then, How would you know, Peter, when you had not persisted in sin sufficiently (or gravely) to be sure of salvation?<br /><br />Or your idea that the solas be dropped if they are not faithful to Jesus. Meet Jesus in Luke 10:25, where he is asked ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’. When the lawyer replies with ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.’ Jesus responds, ‘You have given the right answer.’ Are you suggesting Jesus is mistaken about what we must do to inherit eternal life?! Or are you now prepared to drop the solas?<br /><br />Your last paragraph has your belief of the possibility of your losing your own salvation based not on your faith, but on what you preach – a “work”!<br /><br />Finally, to return to your response to my point: “bad works,” you say, ”are a sign that our faith lacks sincerity.” And it is faith lacking sincerity that does not save. <br /><br />I return once again to your question: How would you know, Peter, when your faith is sincere enough to be sure of salvation? <br /><br />AlisonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-76941621999948400412013-11-27T16:01:19.966+13:002013-11-27T16:01:19.966+13:00When we mention yet another learned theologian, wi...When we mention yet another learned theologian, with his/her own particular slant on the salvation the Christ has given, I am hardly persuaded that there is 'anything new under the sun' to be said about what Jesus has gained for us. I'm not sure that modern theologians are too much brighter than the Early Church Mothers and Fathers. All they have is their own interpretation, which, in my book, has to measure up to the stature and the fullness of Christ in the Gospel.<br /><br />I'm more mindful each day of the cry of Eliza Doolittle in 'My Fair Lady: "Words, words..." that do not necessarily give more lustre to the Light of Christ. Sometimes, silence has the greater wisdom.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-64731577242693596602013-11-27T14:56:31.743+13:002013-11-27T14:56:31.743+13:00"Tragically, TH Library, Bryden, appears not ..."Tragically, TH Library, Bryden, appears not to have that volume!" - PC.<br /><br />No comment - BB!Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-60272979609926062632013-11-27T14:54:40.014+13:002013-11-27T14:54:40.014+13:00Right; what of 25:31ff? Mercifully, we can deal wi...Right; what of 25:31ff? Mercifully, we can deal with this more briefly. I once saw a delightful PhD thesis on the history of the Church’s exegesis of this parable. Crucial for us to note is the default interpretation of today is governed by and large by the ‘Social Gospel’ view of the early 20th C. For who are Jesus’ “brothers”, v.40? What are the identities of those listed in their various privations? Debate has swirled around the answers down the centuries. Important for an answer is another question: who are the “nations” who are brought before the Son of Man? Matt’s answer = the “nations” of 28:18-20, to whom and before whom the disciples of Jesus, as the new Community of this world’s Messiah and Lord, practise their craft, learned from Matt’s Manual, the entire Gospel text. And so the “brothers” of 25:40 = the “little ones” of e.g. Matt 18, Matt’s Fourth Block of Teaching addressed specifically to the Church, or the “poor in spirit” who lead off the entire SM. Once again, text and context, Alison! The Matthean parable of 25:31ff deals with the eschatological judgment of the nations to the Church’s mission down the ages. Other texts will deal with the fruit or otherwise of specific church members; e.g. 1 Cor 3:10-17.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-28604535745716122892013-11-27T14:54:01.879+13:002013-11-27T14:54:01.879+13:00I too saw those two Matthean quotes on Liturgy, Al...I too saw those two Matthean quotes on Liturgy, Alison, and was intrigued! For as we both know, the most crucial feature of reading any text is to see it in its context.<br /><br />So; what is the context of Matt 7:21? In the immediate setting, it looks like vv.13-23. But then again, where does that wee section fit into the larger setting of the Sermon on the Mount? And then again, where does SM fit into Matt 4:23-9:35? Taking this last first. Matthew is giving us the first big section on his Manual for Christian Discipleship, is how I term it. Rather than giving us “show and tell”, as we might say, he’s giving us tell-and-show, the very contents of the two similar summary verses, 4:23 and 9:35, which act as bookends to the entire section. Then, SM is the Tell sub-section, and chs 8-9 the Show sub-section.<br /><br />Thereafter, what is the SM? Well; HUGE swaths of literature have tried to address this question! One of my easier favourites is <i>The Sermon on the Mount through the Centuries: From the Early Church to JPII</i> eds JP Greenman et al (Brazos, 2007). My own conclusion, for what it’s worth, after far more engagement than just this resource, is to see the entire SM as a chiasm, with the Lord’s Prayer at the Centre. Thereafter, there are four sections leading up to this Centre and four parallel sections leading away from it, concluding with the parable of the Two Builders. But here’s the kicker: the first three sections of SM themselves parallel and unpack, section by section, 5:3-12, 13-16, 17-48, the first three petitions of the Lord’s Prayer as Matthew has it (compare here Luke’s version, ch.11). The fourth introduces the first two of three Pillars of Jewish Piety, alms giving and prayer, with the third, fasting, 6:16ff, exactly bringing us to the chiasm in reverse order. Thereafter, as we read the rest of chs 6-7, we have again exactly the three petitions of LP regarding <i>our</i> needs/business being paralleled and unpacked, having dealt with <i>God</i> in the first three.<br /><br />Right: where does 7:21 fit in? It forms part of the sub-section unpacking the third and last petition of the second part of LP - “and do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the Evil One” (NRSV). Jesus in 7:13ff issues three warnings (Matt loves triads!), of which 7:21-23 is the last. Just so, v.21 concerns properly the fruit of Christian Prayer to our Heavenly Father - that he’d rescue us from all forms of trial and temptation and works of evil. It also harks back to 5:17-48, which itself unpacks the third petition of the first section of LP, “your will be done on earth as in heaven”. SM is nothing if not a profound and wonderful dialectic of Prayer in secret before our Heavenly Father - sheer grace therefore - and explicit and visible discipleship before and in the world - i.e. works; cf. Eph 2:4-10.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-67189324004504495412013-11-27T13:04:34.996+13:002013-11-27T13:04:34.996+13:00Tragically, TH Library, Bryden, appears not to hav...Tragically, TH Library, Bryden, appears not to have that volume!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15918465235474975632013-11-27T12:50:10.410+13:002013-11-27T12:50:10.410+13:00It may please you Peter that across in cyberspace,...It may please you Peter that across in cyberspace, under Liturgy’s original on NT Wright and <i>sola scriptura’s</i> “wrongs”, I have now responded to one Jesse by mentioning a recent resource by Eberhard Jüngel. His “polemical” publication, <i>Justification: The Heart of the Christian Faith</i> (T&T Clark, 2001), was in response to the <i>Joint Declaration on Justification</i> put out officially by representatives of the Lutheran World Alliance and the Vatican in 1999. His ch.5 is especially forceful and rich when dealing with the various “<i>solae</i>”. Your readers might like to try and track this text down, and so see how, even and especially in this ecumenical time, such a spirited piece of theology has such significance and practicality. For Jüngel’s entire work has a considerable amount to say about ethics generally, which he particularly addresses in ch.6 of this work. Enjoy!Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-82518974590398478282013-11-27T11:56:00.993+13:002013-11-27T11:56:00.993+13:00Hi Alison
The solas are attempting to be faithful ...Hi Alison<br />The solas are attempting to be faithful to Jesus and to Paul.<br /><br />If they are not so faithful then they should be dropped.<br /><br />Given that the Reformers were well versed in Scripture, at least as well versed as me, though may be not as well versed as you and other learned commenters here, it would be surprising if they proposed the solas as summaries of scriptural teaching in ignorance of the passages you cite.<br /><br />Our works, I think they would say, flow from our saving faith, expressing our gratitude to the Lord for saving us. Our bad works (thinking, say, of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and things such as greed and idolatry standing in the way of inheriting the kingdom of God) are a sign that our faith lacks sincerity.<br /><br />As you know, Paul goes on in 1 Corinthians 6:11 to speak of the difference salvation has made to some of his readers who are heading towards inheritance of the kingdom of God: 'And this is what some of you used to be. BUT you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.' No works saved them!<br /><br />There is a simple logic here, Alison. If faith plus works saves us then we can never have assurance of salvation in this life. Yet the central thrust of the NT epistles (thinking of Hebrews, say, as well as Paul's writings) is that 'blessed assurance' is ours through faith in Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Oppose the solas by all means. I shall continue to preach and teach salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. I would prefer to lose my own salvation than preach and teach a false gospel.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-63211193975716780532013-11-27T08:51:01.824+13:002013-11-27T08:51:01.824+13:00An interesting comment this morning quoting Jesus ...An interesting comment this morning quoting Jesus on the Liturgy site you mention:<br /><br />‘Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.’<br /><br />And mentions of Matthew 25:31ff and 1 Cor 6:9-11 (a popular quote here).<br /><br />You may accept the solas - but Jesus doesn't. And nor does Paul (unless you want to argue that Paul didn't write 1 Cor).<br /><br />Alison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com