tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post3166315630439846250..comments2024-03-29T17:55:30.203+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: The heart of Romans: justification by faithPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-29423471535600769832008-12-12T11:05:00.000+13:002008-12-12T11:05:00.000+13:00'I wonder if I will get an MP3 player for Christma...'I wonder if I will get an MP3 player for Christmas!'<BR/><BR/>Not from us - this year!<BR/><BR/>Your parents.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01993209394087719162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36541757872884309002008-12-12T11:04:00.000+13:002008-12-12T11:04:00.000+13:00Peter: aiteite kai dothesetai soi!Until then, you'...Peter: aiteite kai dothesetai soi!<BR/><BR/>Until then, you'll have to download and drag your laptop to the beach. On the NPP generally, I haven't read Douglas Moo's commentary on Romans but an Orthodox friend praises it highly. I have read a lot of Dunn on Romans (WBC) but wonder if he isn't overdoing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-5853667449865303022008-12-12T10:39:00.000+13:002008-12-12T10:39:00.000+13:00Hi AnonymousThanks for your posts.I wonder if I wi...Hi Anonymous<BR/>Thanks for your posts.<BR/>I wonder if I will get an MP3 player for Christmas!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-32446501710178516612008-12-12T07:09:00.000+13:002008-12-12T07:09:00.000+13:00Hi, Peter - here's a whole bunch of mp3's on tne N...Hi, Peter - here's a whole bunch of mp3's on tne NPP you can listen to while you sunbathe on Tahunanui Beach after your Christmas lunch!<BR/><BR/>http://www.theopedia.com/New_PerspectivismAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-42374299001255258652008-12-12T07:01:00.000+13:002008-12-12T07:01:00.000+13:00It should be added that Vol. 1 of 'Justification a...It should be added that Vol. 1 of 'Justification and Variegated Nomism' included essays by a number of scholars who are not evangelicals of even Christians:<BR/><BR/>D.A. Carson: Introduction - Daniel Falk: Psalms and Prayers - Craig Evans: Scripture-Based Stories - Peter Enns: Expansions of Scripture - Philip Davies: Didactic Stories - L. D. Hurst: Apocalyptic - Robert A. Kugler: Testaments - Donald E. Gowan: Wisdom - Paul Spilsbury: Josephus - Philip Alexander: The Tannaitic Literature - M. McNamara: The Targums - David Hay: Philo - Marcus Bockmuehl: The Dead Sea Scrolls - Mark Seifried: zadaq, zedaqa, and hazadiq in the Hebrew Bible and in Palestinian Judaism - Roland Deines: The Pharisees - D. A. Carson: Conclusion<BR/><BR/>If it's just a matter of surveying the terrain of 1st century JudaismS, then obviously a wide range of ideas may emerge. But Vol. 2 is specifically about 'The Paradoxes of Paul' and asks, inter alia, whether Sanders has understood him rightly. The consensus is: not really.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-26950481263193763972008-12-12T06:50:00.000+13:002008-12-12T06:50:00.000+13:00Carson's volumes are referenced here: http://www.a...Carson's volumes are referenced here: http://www.amazon.com/Justification-Variegated-Nomism-vol-Paradoxes/dp/0801027411<BR/><BR/>Carson is certainly opposed to the 'NPP' - but so too are Douglas Moo, Stephen Westerholm and a host of others. Even among the (not so) newer theorists (Dunn, Wright), I just don't think Galatians and Romans can be read the way they do in any natural way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-45699690915156086242008-12-10T13:29:00.000+13:002008-12-10T13:29:00.000+13:00Thanks DougI shall order the Michael Bird book.It ...Thanks Doug<BR/>I shall order the Michael Bird book.<BR/>It might be a bit rich to have an Aussie teach me how to play cricket (though I concede that generally Aussies do know how to play the game), but I am happy to sit at their feet theologically!!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-59986186039072160592008-12-10T13:13:00.000+13:002008-12-10T13:13:00.000+13:00The best guide from a reformed and a selective app...The best guide from a reformed and a selective appreciation of NPP is probably Michael Bird's book <I>The Saving Righteousness of God</I> (if you can bear to read an Aussie). <A HREF="http://www.metacatholic.co.uk/2007/06/clashing-perspectives-on-paul-3/" REL="nofollow">I reviewed this on my blog</A>. I don't rate the collection of essays on <I>Paul and Variegated Nomism</I> anonymous recommends. Some of the essays in Vol I are good. However, Carson is so against NPP, he even ignores what his own selected essayists writes in order to pretend that they support his dogmatic position, even when they are either more nuanced,, or even favourable, towards NPP. My reading of the book was that the biblical scholars he drew on were overall more favourable to NPP than not. He and essayist in Vol II, tend to treat them as having disproved it.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10326403777027937887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-51570172841601559762008-12-10T12:35:00.000+13:002008-12-10T12:35:00.000+13:00Hi AnonymousNo, I do not know that collection - I ...Hi Anonymous<BR/>No, I do not know that collection - I have read very little on the NPP!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-77615086169648865242008-12-10T11:56:00.000+13:002008-12-10T11:56:00.000+13:00Peter, do you know the Carson-edited collection on...Peter, do you know the Carson-edited collection on 'Variegated Nomism' (2 vols)? <BR/>Paul Helm has a lot to say on his site, too, about Wright and his understanding of 'justification' and sanctification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-72731342816176395762008-12-10T11:46:00.000+13:002008-12-10T11:46:00.000+13:00Hi DougTrue, depending how we define things, we co...Hi Doug<BR/>True, depending how we define things, we could all posit justification by faith as the centre of Romans.<BR/>But then my starting point was a conversation with a scholarly colleague, aware of all these issues, who does not think justification by faith is the centre of Romans!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54540651997762162572008-12-10T11:20:00.000+13:002008-12-10T11:20:00.000+13:00Hmm … I'd say that's true if you mean by justifica...Hmm … I'd say that's true if you mean by justification what the reformers mean by it. I'm not sure that it wouldn't be possible for an NPP adherent to argue the centrality of justification by faith meaning something significantly different by it.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10326403777027937887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-21798952915653086602008-12-09T15:25:00.000+13:002008-12-09T15:25:00.000+13:00Hi DougI agree that the NPP is a range of views an...Hi Doug<BR/>I agree that the NPP is a range of views and I should have acknowledged that in my post.<BR/>But might it be also true to say that the NPP embraces thinkers who agree that justification by faith is not the heart of Romans?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-56290610664188747062008-12-09T12:24:00.000+13:002008-12-09T12:24:00.000+13:00Peter, I would say that NPP is a range of views on...Peter, I would say that NPP is a range of views on Paul and embraces some relatively diverse thinkers, whose only point of agreement is that Paul was not a sixteenth century Protestant and Second Temple Jews were not sixteenth century Catholics.<BR/><BR/>If I find time I will try to write something more on this, but for me the heart if Paul's contrast between where we find the pattern of faithfulness, in Torah, which sets out a faithful life, or in Jesus who lives one. Torah coes with a curse, which also cursed Jesus. Jesus pattern of faithfulness is recognised and vindicated by God who overturns the judgement of Torah in the resurrection, showing that he and his faithfulness are the way to life. There's a lot more to it than that, but that is, in my view, the engine driving the whole.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10326403777027937887noreply@blogger.com