tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post4014574638051503074..comments2024-03-29T17:55:30.203+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: The argument that dare not speak its namePeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-70798769437845113582009-01-01T01:47:00.000+13:002009-01-01T01:47:00.000+13:00Here's Machen's book, written in 1923, now in publ...Here's Machen's book, written in 1923, now in public domain: six basic topics clearly delineated:<BR/><BR/>http://www.biblebelievers.com/machen/index.html<BR/><BR/>It does describe proleptically (prophetically?) how Ecusa developed in the 1960s. Lessons for ACANZP?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-96444893629684122009-01-01T01:22:00.000+13:002009-01-01T01:22:00.000+13:00Peter, if Giles Fraser has anything so coherent as...Peter, if Giles Fraser has anything so coherent as a 'theology', then it would be the kind of thing described here by Philip Turner on the 'working theology' of Tec (in contrast to any official Nicene theology):<BR/>http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=206<BR/>Fraser is a driving force behind a pressure group called 'Inclusive Church'.<BR/>Many years ago Gresham Machen descried the basic typologies in 'Christianity and Liberalism', and the latter has continued to morph, into 'inclusvist' unitarianism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-77499714329907498912008-12-31T07:03:00.000+13:002008-12-31T07:03:00.000+13:00Hi AnonymousThank you for clear thinking and caref...Hi Anonymous<BR/>Thank you for clear thinking and careful knowledge re various matters connected with Giles Fraser's column - matters I had missed but now am illumined about.<BR/><BR/>I take your point re Pentecostal/evangelical/reformed evangelical but the distinctions may be less sharp here in NZ.<BR/><BR/>Fraser v Gagnon: that would be a great debate!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-42231517071990885822008-12-30T23:41:00.000+13:002008-12-30T23:41:00.000+13:00'...except I think some evangelicals are better at...'...except I think some evangelicals are better at thinking through these matters than others;'<BR/><BR/>Well, 'twas ever thus; but it ought to be principle of debate that you engage with the best representatives of a viewpoint, not the weakest; otherwise you spend your time mowing down fields of straw men, which is exhilirating for the ego and may draw plaudits from one's own personal Amen corner but doesn't serve the Kingdom of God. In my experience, Fraser is a journalist not a theologian, and not really up to the task of serious debate with serious Christian thinkers of orthodox persuasion (such as Gagnon, Nicolosi, Benedict XVI - an impossible scenario, I know - 'Aquilae non captant muscas'). But his own qualifications are in the philosophy of Nietzsche, not Christian theology or the Bible, so it's not likely he could easily debate in such fora. Does it need to be said that his biblical exegesis as exemplified here is appalling? Every careful reader of the NT knows that Jesus most frequently quoted from Deuteronomy, and would never have set Moses against Isaiah. <BR/>"and there is a tendency among some evangelicals IMHO to assume that with some prayer and a fair wind all people with homosexual tendencies can change those tendencies."<BR/>More typically a Pentecostal attitude, I would have thought, than evangelical, especially those of the sterner more reformed school.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-37546362557836358312008-12-30T13:12:00.000+13:002008-12-30T13:12:00.000+13:00Hi AnonymousI know what you are saying; and do not...Hi Anonymous<BR/>I know what you are saying; and do not substantially disagree; except I think some evangelicals are better at thinking through these matters than others; and there is a tendency among some evangelicals IMHO to assume that with some prayer and a fair wind all people with homosexual tendencies can change those tendencies. You rightly imply that a true understanding of the Fall and of Redemption might lead to a wholehearted embrace of celibacy by those unable to marry is little or not understood by leading liberal blogistas!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-47649342241350171712008-12-30T11:54:00.000+13:002008-12-30T11:54:00.000+13:00There is no polite way to say this, so publish or ...There is no polite way to say this, so publish or reject as you wish, Peter: Giles Fraser is ignorant and confused and spends much of his time maligning and misrepresenting evangelicals - and now Catholics - who do not share his liberal modernism. Evangelicals are perfectly aware that people discover themselves to have developed a propensity to all kinds of paraphilia (such as pedophilia or gender dysphoria or bisexualism) which they have not (as far as they know) consciously 'chosen', but this has no bearing at all on the *objective moral status of that emotion, or whether oen consents to act upon it. After all, Catholics and evangelicals believe in the Fall - which liberals like Fraser have a lot of difficulty with. The fact that these things 'occur in nature' means nothing - so does cancer. Evangelicals and Catholics have never said 'Whatever is, is right' - that is a characteristically liberal reflex. We look to the redemption of fallen nature, not its endorsement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-1989141224709567782008-12-30T00:10:00.000+13:002008-12-30T00:10:00.000+13:00You may not understand because you do not understa...You may not understand because you do not understand GOD.<BR/>Through Jesus God became truely and properly God and truley and properly man, he knows and understands completely human emotions and feelings and there fore understands us as humans. He knows and understands our human weaknesses and has made allowences by His Grace to help us get to our eternal reward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-6273933236461649862008-12-29T21:31:00.000+13:002008-12-29T21:31:00.000+13:00Hi DavidThanks for commenting.I am afraid I do not...Hi David<BR/>Thanks for commenting.<BR/>I am afraid I do not understand how I have challenged the 'Manliness of God and the power of HIS love.' ...Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-46708601486031982342008-12-29T16:22:00.000+13:002008-12-29T16:22:00.000+13:00Good heavens with all that Jesus did for ALL of us...Good heavens with all that Jesus did for ALL of us by dying on the cross, and rising again to overpower the evil one, you could still right this article.<BR/>ARE YOU LIVING IN NUMBER 7 OR NUMBER 8 (ROMANS)<BR/>Thankfully Gods love is greater than yours. The age of Grace changes a lot of things.<BR/>I find it distressful that you think you, a mere mortal can challenge the Manliness of GOD and the power of HIS Love. You really should GROW UP and spread the Salvation message as if you have read the book of Revealation and are a believer, you will know we are in the last daysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com