tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post4401510471926834287..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Anglican Apostolicity? (1)Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-90819230397413696202016-12-01T18:49:43.132+13:002016-12-01T18:49:43.132+13:00Andrei, I can honestly tell you that this link to ...Andrei, I can honestly tell you that this link to a pericope of an Orthodox assessment of what Christianity is really all about really moved my heart. <br />If only all of us, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, could live up to this aspiration, the world would be a better place. Christos Anesti! :- <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/embed/sAlCze3ZFjA<br /><br />Thank you, Brian, for your Advent greeting - in the spirit of the above link!<br />Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-72170281709797712982016-11-30T19:11:03.922+13:002016-11-30T19:11:03.922+13:00"Always look on the bright side of life"... "Always look on the bright side of life". Do cheer up !<br />Ha! Easy for you to say!<br /><br />1. You are entering the long and lazy days of summer; it's the reverse here.<br /><br />2. You don't have to teach German grammar today to a bunch of teenagers who struggle with their own native tongue.<br /><br />3. I was born a Scot so I have all the default settings of my race. Think of Private Fraser (my mother's family proudly served - and died - with the Black Watch).<br /><br />Happy St Andrew's Day to you. I'll raise a dram tae ye the nicht when I tuck into my haggis 'n neaps. <br />BrianR https://www.blogger.com/profile/11084982458935874569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54599404622865921312016-11-30T18:58:45.353+13:002016-11-30T18:58:45.353+13:00“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God ...“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”<br />When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”<br />Peter replied "'Always look on the bright side of life'. Do cheer up!"Andrew Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-78625595419749782622016-11-30T14:01:40.131+13:002016-11-30T14:01:40.131+13:00Well Brian, despite its length there doesn't a...Well Brian, despite its length there doesn't appear to be much good news (Gospel) in your last homily. "Always look on the bright side of life". Do cheer up !Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-75633450649780736712016-11-29T20:04:59.373+13:002016-11-29T20:04:59.373+13:00"However, regarding the Apostolic Teaching, t..."However, regarding the Apostolic Teaching, that may be something else. When a Church Leader can attribute the natural phenomenon of earthquakes to the 'Wrath of God' - that is more Old Testament than anything taught by Jesus in the New Testament."<br /><br />I was referring to the fact that Destiny Church seems to be more effective in reaching Maori men with a life-transforming message, getting them off drugs and into work and family responsibility than contemporary Anglicanism appears to be - whereas 19th century Anglicanism did a terrific job in bringing the Gospel to them. As for "(super-)natural phenomena", the old trope contrasting the OT and the NT doesn't work. The Book of Revelation, revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ if you believe the prologue (Rev 1.1-3), has quite a lot to say about punitive earthquakes! But I am not a prophet and most certainly not the son of prophets and pass no judgment at all on "natural" phenomena, whether Christchurch in 2011 or Lisbon on All Saints Day 1755 or so - which the Portuguese Catholic Church definitely saw as a divine visitation for the wickedness of the city. Brian Tamaki's ideas are not as theologically eccentric as some people claim.<br /><br />"Pentecostal Fire cannot be limited to the Institutional Church - although it ought to be present therein. Sometimes the culture gives more evidence of God's loving-kindness to His children than the Church can handle or, indeed, replicate."<br /><br />No, this is the classical error of Hegelian liberalism, to equate the Holy Spirit with the 'Zeitgeist'. (Why do liberal Anglicans always fall for this one? They marry the spirit of one age and end up as widowers - or widows - of the next - like the disgusting spectacle of British - and Canadian - leftists shedding tears at the death of the murderous tyrant Fidel Castro.) The Pentecostal gift is all about bold witness to Jesus Christ; it is not about a general feeling of benevolence - the Gift of the Spirit in Acts and the promise of the Spirit in John is precisely about testifying to Christ. <br /><br />As for "the culture", this is simply a cross-section of people at one time, a soup of belief, unbelief, values and socio-economic practices, and is no "evidence of God's loving-kindness" at all. I see no sign at all that contemporary post-Christian western society is closer to God's heart than the past, and the claim that "love wins" is only the despairing pagan assertion that untrammelled sexual expression is the key to human happiness - it all rather reminds me of that great late classical poem of desire and despair, 'Pervigilium Veneris'. Along with untrammeled sex, of course, there must be unrestricted access to drugs and then state-assisted suicide at the end of one's pointless life. Do oyu not understand that these demands of a a faithless age are all of a piece? Once again, Ron, you have confused post-modern libertarianism with the Evangelium Vitae in Jesus Christ!<br /><br />"After all, God is in every single person created in the Divine Image and Likeness - whether the Church likes that or not."<br /><br />Why the scolding tone? Who doesn't like this fact and the joyous fact that God made us male and female bearers of his image? And what Christian doesn't grieve that this image is distorted and debased by sin? <br /><br />"We are called to care for all Creation, not just the membership of the Church."<br /><br />Well, that's a tall order indeed. I have trouble looking after my own house, let alone the neighbouring galaxies. :) I hope the Lord will merciful with me on the Dies Irae, cum Iudex veniet - woops, fell into the Old Testmanet stuff again. A blessed Advent to you (which, as you know, is all about the coming Judge of all the earth).BrianR https://www.blogger.com/profile/11084982458935874569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-46624686515021296372016-11-29T15:43:03.789+13:002016-11-29T15:43:03.789+13:00The Bishops and the Priests are custodians of the ...The Bishops and the Priests are custodians of the Faith but the mistake you seem to make Peter is to think that they are the ones who are spiritually wise and are the ones who are best to inculcate the Faith in others - I don't think that is necessarily so.<br /><br />The simple soul who clears the beer bottles and condoms from the Church porch early on Sunday morning may have more to teach than the priest with his homily delivered two hours later (this example comes from a personal experience) <br /><br />You might find this to be <a href="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sAlCze3ZFjA" rel="nofollow">quite profound</a> Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-40140830231670824812016-11-29T12:06:27.755+13:002016-11-29T12:06:27.755+13:00"Consider how missionary-minded Anglicanism w..."Consider how missionary-minded Anglicanism was in the 19th century in taking the Gospel to Maori. Has it now been eclipsed by Destiny and other churches? It needs a recovery of Pentecostal fire, not a comfortable funeral within post-Christian kiwidom." - Brian Kelly -<br /><br />Well Brian, considering that Jesus himself said that "They will know you are my disciples by your love": it seems to me that, in the current context of the Church Apostolic in New Zealand - insofar as it helps individuals and families to live in safety with food and lodging - even Destiny Church is fulfilling that description.<br /><br />However, regarding the Apostolic Teaching, that may be something else. When a Church Leader can attribute the natural phenomenon of earthquakes to the 'Wrath of God' - that is more Old Testament than anything taught by Jesus in the New Testament.<br /><br />'Pentecostal Fire cannot be limited to the Institutional Church - although it ought to be present therein. Sometimes the culture gives more evidence of God's loving-kindness to His children than the Church can handle or, indeed, replicate. After all, God is in every single person created in the Divine Image and Likeness - whether the Church likes that or not. We are called to care for all Creation, not just the membership of the Church.Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-88585864314908753612016-11-29T11:49:51.901+13:002016-11-29T11:49:51.901+13:00Thanks Glen, Andrei and Brian
Excellent points, al...Thanks Glen, Andrei and Brian<br />Excellent points, all!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-10820936584012836642016-11-29T11:46:22.674+13:002016-11-29T11:46:22.674+13:00Don't forget that the fundamental meaning of &...Don't forget that the fundamental meaning of 'apostle' is *missionary ( < apostello). If a church is not actively seeking the leading of the Holy Spirit to be sent with the message of the Gospel to places and persons where it has not yet taken root, it is not authentically apostolic. Remember also that with apostleship came - most frequently - martyrdom, not respectability.<br />Consider how missionary-minded Anglicanism was in the 19th century in taking the Gospel to Maori. Has it now been eclipsed by Destiny and other churches? It needs a recovery of Pentecostal fire, not a comfortable funeral within post-Christian kiwidom.BrianR https://www.blogger.com/profile/11084982458935874569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-23667504787535556262016-11-29T08:50:06.319+13:002016-11-29T08:50:06.319+13:00" I can imagine it might point to the divisio...<i>" I can imagine it might point to the divisions within Orthodoxy, including the division between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox as signs that a claim to purity of adherence to the apostles is no guarantee of unity of adherence: patriarchs and bishops can get in the way. </i><br /><br />I guess Peter particular churches can be <i>schismatic</i> or <i>heretical</i><br /><br />Apostolic means to me that the Bishops have their authority handed down to them directly from the Apostles - thus in the Latin (Catholic) Church the Bishops authority comes from St Peter, while in the Greek and Russian Churches the authority has come down from St Andrew and the Church in Jerusalem the authority has been passed down from St James etc <br /><br />The Orthodox Church of Alexandra and the Copts who are in schism both derive their apostolic succession from St Mark, and I believe both promulgate the True Faith<br /><br />Churches being in schism is part of life in a fallen world whereas churches falling into heresy is where people are led astray from the True Faith<br /><br />With Orthodox Bishops if they stray from the reservation into heresy their own flock will disown them - this happens even in these days<br /><br /><br />For me it is matter of discernment - where will you find Spiritual nourishment or where might you be led astray - God knows his own but whose wisdom to trust is more difficult for us in this fallen world and what are we to make of novel doctrines?<br /><br /><i>"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."</i>Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-41064479438598161442016-11-29T08:41:20.676+13:002016-11-29T08:41:20.676+13:00
The most important part of it to me is, that it ...<br />The most important part of it to me is, that it is about what the Apostles SAW.Their belief was based on their eye witness experience.They recorded what they saw.Glen Youngnoreply@blogger.com