tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post5559058560869665087..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: N.T. Wright dismissed as "little more than a book-a-year apologist"Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-14142461961266093882015-02-16T13:14:20.045+13:002015-02-16T13:14:20.045+13:00"Quite a few others simply smuggle their ‘pre..."Quite a few others simply smuggle their ‘prejudices’ in - for often they are also simply blind to them!" - B.B. -<br /><br />And so say all of us. This would seem to be a normal scholarly device - especially for those with moral scruples like NTW.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-21456910241472730372015-02-16T03:48:51.656+13:002015-02-16T03:48:51.656+13:00Perhaps the greatest compliment to a scholar is at...Perhaps the greatest compliment to a scholar is attention by fellow scholars. No one attracts a larger audience at SBL than N.T. Wright. No one.Scot McKnighthttp://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesuscreed/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54893003534219968552015-02-10T13:24:36.971+13:002015-02-10T13:24:36.971+13:00Sorry Kurt; I have to disagree on this one. Having...Sorry Kurt; I have to disagree on this one. Having read and listened to both Wright and Spong, they are of really rather different calibres. Tho Tom’s view of Barclay is spot on.<br /><br />NTW has made and continues to make substantial contributions to NT scholarship - tho of course, being the guild it is, ever since the likes of Johann Gabler and Hermann Reimarus, the hermeneutical game has been keenly fought! And that is one reason I like Wright for acknowledging in his Question of God project right from the start how he is trying to proceed methodologically. Quite a few others simply smuggle their ‘prejudices’ in - for often they are also simply blind to them! And that makes this award, and the spat it has seemingly created, all the more intriguing, given who Sewanee are. For anyone who has taken the kind of genealogical appraisal of moral discourse at all seriously (like MacIntyre: see that other thread http://anglicandownunder.blogspot.co.nz/2015/01/are-women-bishops-collusion-with.html where I’ve posted), one may see what is really at stake with the likes of Holloway. Talk of “ideologically generated answers that he seeks to defend”: what delicious irony!Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-45091720729884332822015-02-10T03:41:32.305+13:002015-02-10T03:41:32.305+13:00I think Tom Downs hits the nail on the head on thi...I think Tom Downs hits the nail on the head on this one.<br /><br />Kurt Hill<br />In cold and snowy<br />Brooklyn, NYKurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-12380087972152584792015-02-09T19:37:15.088+13:002015-02-09T19:37:15.088+13:00Hi Peter, it is pretty amusing watching an academi...Hi Peter, it is pretty amusing watching an academic spat. But then, academia sometimes seems to be all about attracting attention, even notoriety, which may help in attracting funding. From that perspective, Dr Holloway might be very pleased that you are taking the time to criticise him! <br /><br />I found the swipe at St Andrews ironic: "an under-funded Scottish university anxious to attract young full-fee-paying American Evangelical men questing for old-world cultural capital". <br /><br />Really? This from a lecturer at Sewanee which in 2011 admitted to a major problem losing students to Georgia State, UNC and UT Knoxville!<br /><br />And St Andrews attracting American men does have a rather august history: Benjamin Franklin for one; also Andrew Carnegie and James Wilson (first judge on USSC)!<br /><br />St Andrews is apparently the third oldest university in the English-speaking world (1410) after Oxford and Cambridge. It does attract a lot of Americans (not just evangelicals and not just men, despite Dr Holloway's swipe). Meeting the heir to the British throne there however is probably a one-off!MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-988621974209893432015-02-09T19:35:22.950+13:002015-02-09T19:35:22.950+13:00Yes, Tim, there was a hidden codicil to the Nicene...Yes, Tim, there was a hidden codicil to the Nicene Creed proposing a litmus test for orthodoxy which had nothing to do with the Trinity! But all is being revealed on ADU :)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-11999371425213153882015-02-09T19:13:24.204+13:002015-02-09T19:13:24.204+13:00Tom Wright has published an enormous volume of bib...Tom Wright has published an enormous volume of biblical scholarship, only a very tiny amount of it having anything to do with the issue of homosexuality.<br /><br />I well remember the summer in the late 1990s when I read both 'The New Testament and the People of God' and 'Jesus and the Victory of God'. I felt like I was being ushered into a whole new world of understanding of the times in which the NT was written, and first century Judaisms, and the faith/works controversy, and many other subjects. <br /><br />I don't agree with everything Tom Wright says, but I'm very sad when people dismiss that huge body of scholarship simply on the grounds that he takes a different view than they do on homosexuality. We evangelicals are sometimes accused of making it the litmus test of biblical orthodoxy. It seems that we aren't the only ones to do that.<br /><br />Tim ChestertonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-35958345876777773072015-02-09T17:52:15.578+13:002015-02-09T17:52:15.578+13:00That would be fairer comment, Ron. Though note tha...That would be fairer comment, Ron. Though note that Sewanee is a university with strong links to the Episcopal church and it sees fit - notwithstanding Dr Holloway's protest - to honour NTW.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-18510516031661424702015-02-09T17:22:03.046+13:002015-02-09T17:22:03.046+13:00Perhaps I should say that N.T.Wright is more of a ...Perhaps I should say that N.T.Wright is more of a friend to ACNA than to TEC, in his stand on Gay issues. That might be more acceptable to you as moderator, Peter. At least, that can be proven by his warmer fellowship with ACNA and with former Bishop Nazir-Ali - if cooperation with ACNA associates is any indication. Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54471280744809224762015-02-09T13:46:55.809+13:002015-02-09T13:46:55.809+13:00I feel the same way about Bishop Wright as I do ab...I feel the same way about Bishop Wright as I do about Bishop Spong; they are both popularizers who raise strong feelings in their readers on opposite ends of the religious/political spectrum. If you're old enough you'll remember William Barclay, another sort of popularizer, whose commentaries became the easy source for sermons for generations of lazy clergy. He offended no one and pleased everyone... except seminary professors.Tom Downsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-73306863813977995412015-02-09T13:39:48.049+13:002015-02-09T13:39:48.049+13:00Hi Ron
Read my words please: I WILL NOT PUBLISH HE...Hi Ron<br />Read my words please: I WILL NOT PUBLISH HERE STATEMENTS WHICH I WORRY WILL LEAD TO BE SUED FOR LIBEL.<br /><br />Your assertion about NT Wright's views went WELL BEYOND what Dr Holloway said.<br /><br />I am happy to publish what I do not agree with but I will only publish comments that I deem will not get this blog into trouble.<br /><br />Just because people have views antithetical to your own does not mean I or they are "anti-gay." Try to avoid casting round that term. Currently such a term covers - by your lights - about 90% of Christians and 100% of what churches have taught about the sanctity of marriage for 2000 years.<br /><br />Why then do you remain part of such a - by your lights - horrible lot of people?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-75024538469739437522015-02-09T13:32:44.362+13:002015-02-09T13:32:44.362+13:00Hi Bryden (and Ron)
If I publish in full the comme...Hi Bryden (and Ron)<br />If I publish in full the comment you have just submitted, Bryden, then I will be publishing Ron's comment (cited by you) which I decided not to publish. (On the grounds, incidentally, that it states with conviction and certainty that X belongs to a not very nice group of people when the situation is much more nuanced than that, as the first part of your comment points out.<br /><br />So, here goes, with a little bit of redacting:<br /><br />Bryden writes:<br /><br />"Isn’t language interesting? In the spirit of critical scholarship ...<br /><br />“NT Wright, the NT scholar, is, like Tony Thiselton, one of the greatest living masters of the craft of hermeneutics, of the considered view that in sum the NT in particular and the biblical evidence in general does not favour any form of homosexual behaviour, which in fact it condemns. <br /><br />As for the notion (recently proposed and difficult to establish exactly) of ‘sexual orientation’: the biblical evidence is probably moot, since the Christian Scriptures do not consider the question specifically. They do however enable solid theologies of creation and creation’s impairment (aka the Fall), enabling furthermore a due anthropology. Such an anthropology permits discussion and some conclusions surrounding such notions as ‘orientation’.<br /><br />In sum: as with all forms of broken human being, the Scriptural stance towards “gays” is one of firstly unconditional loving acceptance, such is Yahweh’s/the Father’s compassion in Christ Jesus; and thereafter, such is the grace and power and truth of the Holy Spirit that the Living God seeks the full transformation of human being, initially here in this life and eschatologically in all its fulness.” (BB)<br /><br />Versus:<br /><br />“[strong assertion made about NT Wright's views but with words which could be deemed libellous].” (FRS)<br /><br />Because life in general and human being in particular is rather complex, sloganeering is not that helpful I sense, Ron. <br />"Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-63189870928348763302015-02-09T13:00:59.622+13:002015-02-09T13:00:59.622+13:00So, Peter, you would rather no-one on your blog qu...So, Peter, you would rather no-one on your blog questions your own ideas about N.T.Wright and the 'rightness' of his critic? I must record that I do not agree with your summation of the argument.<br /><br />There. I don;'t think that will get you into trouble. legally.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-28966824659476575462015-02-09T12:16:59.650+13:002015-02-09T12:16:59.650+13:00Hi Bryden and Ron
I briefly published both your co...Hi Bryden and Ron<br />I briefly published both your comments and then have thought the better of it. I don't want any grief from lawyers!<br /><br />I get the point that there is something Stalinesque about suppression of academic discourse going on in the letter; and I get it that NT Wright is, shall we say, diplomatically, publicly on the side of Anglican conservatism re sexuality. But the precise nature of your respective critiques is, I suggest, just a bit strong in vehemence for my taste.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-30857532805521858372015-02-09T07:33:11.800+13:002015-02-09T07:33:11.800+13:00Interesting that Sewanee, my undergraduate school,...Interesting that Sewanee, my undergraduate school, just trumpeted creating a new assistant college dean for Diversity or some such. Guess the School of Theology is not down with that.Tregonseehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01705100658499499100noreply@blogger.com