tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post5848031269207704763..comments2024-03-29T22:00:02.999+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: The power of God versus the politics of churchianityPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-20963973535718490182012-01-20T07:42:38.323+13:002012-01-20T07:42:38.323+13:00Re "I am aware of your own thought on this&qu...Re "I am aware of your own thought on this". As I have not shared them specifically that makes you a very insightful man. :-) <br /><br />blessingshogsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-57040452491355259062012-01-19T22:25:17.999+13:002012-01-19T22:25:17.999+13:00Yes, Hogster. And what many other 'No Covenant...Yes, Hogster. And what many other 'No Covenant' enlightened Anglicans around the world 'think about it' too. I am aware of your own thoughts on this, and of our host on this site. I just don't agree with them. - Agape -Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-91423017082913148752012-01-19T12:25:04.085+13:002012-01-19T12:25:04.085+13:00Re: While the Covenant seeks to rule out new under...Re: While the Covenant seeks to rule out new understanding of these element of human existence, ....<br /><br />Does it? Would it be fairer to say it rules our what you believe should be a new understanding etc etc .... ? <br /><br />blessingshogsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-52217632078450518022012-01-19T11:41:33.553+13:002012-01-19T11:41:33.553+13:00A lot would depend, Peter, on what you consider to...A lot would depend, Peter, on what you consider to be 'God's Truth' - in order for it to be proclaimed <br />'harmoniously'. <br /><br />There would appear to be different understandings in the Church (not to say versions) of what 'God's Truth' really is - especially in areas of sexuality and gender - and what the Bible says, or does not actually say (because of a lack of up-to-date knowledge) about them.<br /><br />While the Covenant seeks to rule out new understanding of these element of human existence, there may not be a 'harmonious' outcome, and therefore, presumably, in your estimation, no Covenant agreement.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-53463004606827102992012-01-19T10:27:55.221+13:002012-01-19T10:27:55.221+13:00It would be good, Bosco, if we could agree on the ...It would be good, Bosco, if we could agree on the Anglican Covenant because it expresses truth we agree with as Anglicans, and a process of ecclesial discipline to which we subscribe because we believe that God works most powerfully where God's truth is proclaimed harmoniously!<br /><br />To the extent that we will only have a Covenant because of adroit politicking the Covenant will be a failure - a kind of ecclesiastical sticking plaster over a large wound.<br /><br />As you know I am doing my best to persuade people via blogging rather than politicking. Success is just around the corner ... :)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-91742138603941504302012-01-18T14:26:28.177+13:002012-01-18T14:26:28.177+13:00I would have thought the solution was obvious: spe...I would have thought the solution was obvious: spend huge amounts of time, energy, meetings, discussions, synods, money, drafting, flights on..... an "Anglican Covenant"!!!...<br /><br />Wait! Isn't that the politics of churchianity?<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Bosco<br /><br />;-)liturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-61606141833179255732012-01-18T12:31:09.080+13:002012-01-18T12:31:09.080+13:00Thanks, Andrew. Amen to your prayerThanks, Andrew. Amen to your prayerFather Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-16585251272749569932012-01-17T21:46:01.227+13:002012-01-17T21:46:01.227+13:00One of my great heroes in the Bible is Nehemiah - ...One of my great heroes in the Bible is Nehemiah - a man of prayer and action. He relied on the power of God to overrule the heart of the most powerful ruler of his day and thwart his enemies, while working and planning tirelessly to re-establish Israel in their own land, worshipping God alone.<br /><br />In the Anglican Communion, if you'll excuse the generalisation, we have tended more towards the prayer and less towards the action. I would suggest that over the last generation or so that has been reversed. Internally, the women's ministry and human sexuality debates have drawn many into political struggles. Externally, the decline in church attendance has led to a plethora of strategies and approaches to reverse that trend.<br /><br />Perhaps, as you suggest, that has led to more reliance on our political skill and ministry strategies than on the power of God. May God help us to be more like Nehemiah.Andrew Reidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-43643807316546392102012-01-17T17:43:46.431+13:002012-01-17T17:43:46.431+13:00I remember reading Martyn Lloyd-Jones once, talkin...I remember reading Martyn Lloyd-Jones once, talking about how, in the Methodist chapels in the days of his youth, if things weren't going well, the elders would call the congregation to a day of prayer and fasting. Now, he said, we try to organize our way out of it. He wrote that in the 1950's- I wonder what he would think now?<br /><br />Thanks for this, Peter - a good reminder.Tim Chestertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13676859074652475474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-90162977267402223592012-01-17T16:41:26.299+13:002012-01-17T16:41:26.299+13:00Apologies for my last post!!
Not for the burden, ...Apologies for my last post!!<br /><br />Not for the burden, but for the spelling - of the name of the Dean of St. Albans, which is:<br /><br />Jeffrey John (not Geoffrey John)<br /><br />mea culpa!Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-44291200291072536012012-01-17T14:38:53.926+13:002012-01-17T14:38:53.926+13:00Peter, despite the title of this thread seeming to...Peter, despite the title of this thread seeming to be about 'right worship' versus what you have called 'Churchianity'; you have included within it a link and a reference to the news that Dean Geoffrey John has threatened to sue the Church of England.<br /><br />On this subject, I have just posted an article on 'kiwianglo' written in 'The Independent' by Chris Bryant, who sees the Church of England as being deceitful in it's treatment of Geoffrey John. I tend to agree with his view.<br /><br />However, on your substantive theme, I do believe that one of the reasons the Church is not gaining too many coverts at this time is that so many of our churches are so concerned with ritual purity, that they seem to have forgotten the important fact that 'Jesus Christ came into this world to Save Sinners - that's all people - us Christians as well.<br /><br />Sometimes the Church is so hypocritical on matters of gender and sexuality - forgetting that the writers of the Scriptures had very little idea of the extent of sexual diversity in human beings - that young people, especially, can no longer bother with teachings that are out of date with reality.<br /><br />The hypocrisy that has become evident in the Geoffrey John case in England - where it is well-known that there are many clergy - even bishops - who are homosexual - simply puts the Church at risk of being deemed irrelevant, not only to those who happen to be L.G.B. ot T. in their sexual-orientation, but also the many Christians who are either related to them or who support them 'as they are'. They are not 'self-willed' or perverse in their sexuality, but human beings made in God's Image.<br /><br />And then, of course, there is the problem of 'Sola-Scriptura-ism', which denies the charism of Reason-able discourse on God's intention for God's diverse creation.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com