tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post6444141936486660769..comments2024-03-30T00:33:32.285+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Not with a bang but a whimper does the Communion end (UPDATED)Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-67371190148532734952013-11-04T23:03:09.661+13:002013-11-04T23:03:09.661+13:00Yes, Michael, but have you noticed the category of...Yes, Michael, but have you noticed the category of people he more readily said his "No-No" to? - like "You generation of vipers". - The 'self-righteous' of Jesus day really did get it in the neck from him because of their presumption that they were really 'holier than thou'.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-51191686363753941042013-11-04T19:49:06.533+13:002013-11-04T19:49:06.533+13:00Fr Ron wrote:
"Does it not strike you as sad...Fr Ron wrote:<br /><br />"Does it not strike you as sad that the primary motivation of a 'Christian' organiosation is based on "Thou Shalt Not" - rather than: <br />"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength - and your neighbour as yourself", or , with Jesus" "A New Commandment I give to you; that you love one another as I have loved you"."<br /><br />Sure Father Ron. But why don't you mention all the times that Christ said "Thou shalt not"?<br /><br />Are you afraid of admitting that they exist?<br /><br />"We are not saved by our own righteousness, but by the righteousness of God. This doesn't seem to have sunk in with the No-Noers!"<br /><br />Since Christ himself is the ultimate No-Noer, don't you think its a little presumptious on your part to be saying what has or has not sunk in with Him?MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-56213734681133003952013-11-03T07:47:38.944+13:002013-11-03T07:47:38.944+13:00As a sometime teacher of Latin I am delighted to l...As a sometime teacher of Latin I am delighted to learn that the dead language is in fact alive and is undergoing shifts in semantic range.<br />(re vera me luget loquellam Ciceronis hodie non intellegi - o tempora! o mores!)<br />This link should give the ending of 'Some Like It Hot' - or 'Aliqui id calidum amant' as I prefer to call it:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYUfPTeE0DM<br /><br />Martinus Pedanticus<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-38748881737471288422013-11-03T06:17:57.797+13:002013-11-03T06:17:57.797+13:00It is pedantry, Martin, because your definition of...It is pedantry, Martin, because your definition of ad hominem does not allow for change in language usage!<br /><br />'Ad hominem' now also includes 'playing the man and not the ball of the argument.'<br /><br />Excellent conversation at the end of your comment: love it! Does nay one write comedy like that anymore?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-50844662907898302622013-11-02T23:41:44.202+13:002013-11-02T23:41:44.202+13:00At the risk (nay, certainty) of pedantry, an '...At the risk (nay, certainty) of pedantry, an 'argumentum ad hominem' is in fact a logical fallacy that wrongly rejects an argument on the grounds of a perceived moral or intellectual flaw in the person proposing it: 'You can't believe x because Martin is a reprobate.' It is not the same as an insult or reprimand. On this blog I've been called mean-spirited, bigoted, unloving etc. All of these charges may be true (and all very mild compared to the truly great insults of Dr Martin Luther), in which case I should take it on the chin, but none of them relates to the substance of the argument. I'm reminded of the famous concluding exchange to 'Some Like It Hot' between Joe E. Brown and Jack Lemon (in drag):<br />'You can't marry me - I smoke.'<br />'I don't mind.'<br />'But I've lived 3 years with a saxophone player.'<br />'I forgive you.'<br />'I can never have children.'<br />'We can adopt.'<br />'No really, you can't marry me (removes wig) - I'm a man.'<br />'Well, nobody's perfect.'<br /><br />Hmm, that last line doesn't work any more ...<br /><br />Martin NichomachosAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-71135897614722654962013-11-01T22:04:22.191+13:002013-11-01T22:04:22.191+13:00Hi Martin
as moderator of the blog I am unhappy ab...Hi Martin<br />as moderator of the blog I am unhappy about the way you have worded the above citation because it blurs Bosco's identity as a Christian person with a secular person and that is not fair on Bosco.<br /><br />Your concern would be fairer and devoid of ad hominem if it went something like this, 'I find Bosco's argument difficult to distinguish from a secular argument ... By contrast a catholic and biblical argument would (should) ...' The focus is then on the content of the argument and not on the character of the commenter (however unintentionally you have arrived at the latter focus).Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-18033521282021028762013-11-01T21:52:10.046+13:002013-11-01T21:52:10.046+13:00Peter, my words which I imagine Bosco took excepti...Peter, my words which I imagine Bosco took exception to were: "here you're speaking as am modern unreflective secular person would, to whom the currency of "rights" seems so obvious as to need no explication, rather than as a biblical and catholic Christian would, to whom God's "rights" over His creation and a fortiori over His Church are paramount'. I was describing his argument and ideas, insofar as I can discern them - something on which Bosco always remains very unclear in his written comments. (To wit, he always raises questions - usually about the complexity of life or the inconsistency of the Anglican Church or the insuperable problems of using the Bible today - but rarely stays to answer any of them.) There was nothing about his character at all. My impression of Bosco's character from reading his website is entirely positive - the thoughtful and conscientious kind of person I would enjoy having a beer with.<br />Cheers for All Saints,<br />MartinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-69611005568512870592013-11-01T21:02:29.297+13:002013-11-01T21:02:29.297+13:00Hi Martin
Two notes.
1. It is an attack on a fello...Hi Martin<br />Two notes.<br />1. It is an attack on a fellow human being to describe them in ways which are unfair. That can include speculative descriptions about people which are more to do with what we hypothesise the person is like than the reality of the person. (I am not saying you yourself are doing all this, but I am explaining my conception of ad hominem. It is not just about using a word like 'bigot').<br />2. I am with you wholeheartedly and thus potentially in disagreement with Bosco in thinking it wrong for two people of the same gender to bring a child into the world who from the beginning will be deprived of the possibility of having a parent of the opposite gender. I cannot conceive of any bio-tech development which changes this ethical judgment.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-6824186419656881212013-11-01T20:35:32.934+13:002013-11-01T20:35:32.934+13:00No, Peter, that wasn't an attack on his charac...No, Peter, that wasn't an attack on his character (which is what ad hominem means) but on the nature of his *argument* which is manifestly secular in its language and assumptions about 'rights'. I never called him 'mean-spirited, bigoted, lacking in love' etc which has been common currency until not so long ago of one of your correspondents.<br /><br />But as well as being an insensitive brute, I have a thick hide and I thoroughly enjoyed his equally secular-minded reply with its delightful reference to Martin van Buren (the first US president, BTW, not to be born a British subject). Each time I read Bosco's wonderful Italian name, I am reminded of my stay many years ago in the Salesian seminary in Krakow with its great posters of 'Don Bosco' averting to his work among poverty-stricken Italian boys. What would Don Bosco think of 'Giuseppe has two fathers' and other enlightened literature of the modern age?<br />Let me assure Bosco that I am *entirely aware* of modern genetic work and embryo experimentation, including the implantation of genetic material across species to produce hybrids. A Brave New World indeed - or to quote Leonard Cohen, 'I've seen the future, baby, and it's murder.' A great number of things are indeed possible today thanks to genetic developments. We could, for example, grow living organ banks to be harvested as required.... No, if Bosco reads carefully what I actually wrote, he will see: <br />1. I was saying nothing at all about genetic science, I was describing in fact modern legal fictions about parenthood.<br />2. I didn't say these developments were 'impossible' - anything is 'possible' in the minds of lawyers - I said they were *morally wrong.<br />So please address this (very real and present) existential question: is it morally right to bring up a child in a homosexual household? This is what his talk above about 'rights and obligations' amounts to at its most personal. How two adults choose to run a joint household is neither here nor there; children are a different matter.<br /><br />Bosco, tell me plainly what *you think: a good or bad development? I know what I, as a Christian priest and parent, thin of this modern secular development. What do YOU think? <br />They exist already, as a legal extension of the concept of 'family', which for centuries at least in the Christian world had a relatively stable meaning. In a post-Christian world all that has gone out the window.<br /> <br />Don Bosco, go back and read what I *wrote, not what you *think I was saying.<br /><br />As for Bosco's last paragraph, the confusion and non sequiturs run so deep, I don't know where to begin. As a sometime teacher of Greek and Latin literature, I wasn't aware that same-sex desire and same-sex erotic relationships began in 1946. (Note to Peter: that's irony, not ad hominem.)<br /><br />Martin van Buren (well, sooner he than Paul van Buren!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-25618934996009668902013-11-01T19:44:13.292+13:002013-11-01T19:44:13.292+13:00Hi Martin/Bosco
Bosco has a point, Martin. I shou...Hi Martin/Bosco<br /><br />Bosco has a point, Martin. I should have applied the 'ad hominem' standard to your comment above in which you make the attack on the person of Bosco (speaking as a secular person etc) and not on the argument and its content.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-68728991633120838182013-11-01T14:21:37.954+13:002013-11-01T14:21:37.954+13:00“it is simply *wrong* to bring up a child in a hom...“it is simply *wrong* to bring up a child in a homosexual environment and to misuse language, calling two women a child's "mothers" or (more rarely) two men a child's "fathers".”<br /><br />The technology is there for that quote to soon feel as out-of-touch as Martin Van Buren’s “ ‘railroad’ carriages are pulled at the enormous speed of 15 miles per hour by ‘engines’ which, in addition to endangering life and limb of passengers, roar and snort their way through the countryside, setting fire to crops, scaring the livestock and frightening women and children. The Almighty certainly never intended that people should travel at such breakneck speed.” “ and Dionysys Larder’s “Rail travel at high speed is not possible because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of asphyxia.”<br /><br />Whilst many Christians continue speaking about little else but opposing allowing homosexuals to commit, I see very little being done about rapidly developing ethical questions such as the one Martin so easily brushes off.<br /><br />Of course I’m not quoting chapter and verse, the first time anyone even used the word “homosexual” in an English Bible translation was in 1946! It’s just not a biblical concept – and once the concept arose it was regarded as a mental illness until relatively recently. I similarly cannot quote chapter and verse for the ethics of train travel or other speeds faster than 15 miles per hour, let alone IVF or Martin’s combining of genetic material from two persons of the same gender.<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Bosco<br /><br />Ps. I wonder if some others here had used Martin’s blatant ad hominem language whether they would have been edited? Not a complaint – just an observation.liturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-67423720430307073322013-11-01T12:18:33.354+13:002013-11-01T12:18:33.354+13:00Martin @ October 31, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Your link t...Martin @ October 31, 2013 at 11:00 PM<br /><br />Your link to http://drgavsblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/hate-homophobia-and-holiness/<br /><br />was powerful and delightful and glorious: thank you very much.<br /><br />Money line amidst much:<br /><br />There was something deeply dignified about people who had become Christians as something more than a pose of accessorized spirituality, but who were engaged in a life or death struggle with themselves – with militant Islam – with the scorn of self indulgent secularism – and who were serious about their appetites and surrendering them; and not making a special case to exempt homosexual appetite from the call of God to be freed, transformed and blessed.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-58467335693131454812013-11-01T12:07:24.496+13:002013-11-01T12:07:24.496+13:00Does it not strike you as sad that the primary mot...Does it not strike you as sad that the primary motivation of a 'Christian' organiosation is based on "Thou Shalt Not" - rather than: <br /><br />"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, and with all your strength - and your neighbour as yourself", or , with Jesus" "A New Commandment I give to you; that you love one another as I have loved you"<br /><br />We are not saved by our own righteousness, but by the righteousness of God. This doesn't seem to have sunk in with the No-Noers! <br /><br />Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison!<br /><br />Father Faber, the great English hymn-writer, changed from Calvinism to the fullness of faith in pure catholic devotion and spirituality.<br /><br />I'm all for Father Faber's lovely evangelical hymn:<br /><br />There’s a wideness in God’s mercy,<br />Like the wideness of the sea;<br />There’s a kindness in His justice,<br />Which is more than liberty.<br /><br />There is welcome for the sinner,<br />And more graces for the good;<br />There is mercy with the Savior;<br />There is healing in His blood.<br /><br />There is grace enough for thousands<br />Of new worlds as great as this;<br />There is room for fresh creations<br />In that upper home of bliss.<br /><br />For the love of God is broader<br />Than the measure of our mind;<br />And the heart of the Eternal<br />Is most wonderfully kind.<br /><br />There is plentiful redemption<br />In the blood that has been shed;<br />There is joy for all the members<br />In the sorrows of the Head.<br /><br />’Tis not all we owe to Jesus;<br />It is something more than all;<br />Greater good because of evil,<br />Larger mercy through the fall.<br /><br />If our love were but more simple,<br />We should take Him at His word;<br />And our lives would be all sunshine<br />In the sweetness of our Lord.<br /><br />Souls of men! why will ye scatter<br />Like a crowd of frightened sheep?<br />Foolish hearts! why will ye wander<br />From a love so true and deep?<br /><br />It is God: His love looks mighty,<br />But is mightier than it seems;<br />’Tis our Father: and His fondness<br />Goes far out beyond our dreams.<br /><br />But we make His love too narrow<br />By false limits of our own;<br />And we magnify His strictness<br />With a zeal He will not own.<br /><br />Was there ever kinder shepherd<br />Half so gentle, half so sweet,<br />As the Savior who would have us<br />Come and gather at His feet?<br /><br />Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-21222130133361882152013-11-01T12:04:50.901+13:002013-11-01T12:04:50.901+13:00Kia ora Peter,
"Perhaps you cannot 'see ...Kia ora Peter,<br /><br />"Perhaps you cannot 'see how' because here you're speaking as am modern unreflective secular person would, to whom the currency of "rights" seems to obvious as to need no explication, rather than as a biblical and catholic Christian would, to whom God's "rights" over His creation and a fortiori over His Church are paramount." (Martin)<br /><br />This type of polarity is unhelpful. The appropriation of 'biblical' authority often used as a trump card to dismiss the perspective of someone we disagree with. Quoting chapter and verse as a means to confirm the validity of a position is simplistic and often manipulative. There is more than one way to read and understand scripture. As fellow Christians, it serves us well to consider that we all take scripture seriously, even when we understand it differently.mike greensladenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-61074947797283692962013-11-01T11:29:01.920+13:002013-11-01T11:29:01.920+13:00Perry, you queried whether any representatives fro...Perry, you queried whether any representatives from Melanesia or PNG were present at Gafcon II last week. I don't know, but I think it highly likely that they were. <br /><br />There is clearly much sympathy for the goals of Gafcon in both provinces. Equally, a concerted effort has been mounted by some liberals to deny this. <br /><br />For example, you may recall that in July 2012, the Global South Primates Meeting in Bangkok issued a communique. One of its provisions was to "note with sadness" that the Episcopal Church of the USA (TEC) had promulgated a liturgy for blessing same sex unions. It expressed solidarity with those in TEC who dissented, and stated: <br /><br />"We also appreciate and support all the faithful in Anglican Church in North America (ACNA) as well as those in the Anglican Church in Canada who remain true to our biblical and historic faith." <br /><br />Primates passing the resolution included the primates of Melanesia and of Papua New Guinea. <br /><br />Later that month, a bishop of Melanesia claimed that the primate of Melanesia, ++Vunagi, didn't know about this resolution. He insinuated that ++Vunagi wasn't in agreement with it. This canard was repeated on a number of liberal blogs including Thinking Anglicans and Episcopal Café. <br /><br />In August 2012, the Global South secretariat released this comment:<br /><br />"A clarification released by the GS Secretariat:<br />There have been misleading comments and speculations that Archbishop David Vunagi, Primate of Melanesia, was not consulted about the Global South Primates’ Communiqué released in Bangkok. As a matter of fact, every issue was discussed in the Global South Primates Meeting that took place from 18-20 July before the Communiqué was drafted and adopted. The Primates were presented with copies of the Communiqué for vetting in Bangkok before it was officially released. Archbishop Vunagi (of Melanesia) has also confirmed in writing that supporting the Communiqué “is not an issue”." See http://www.globalsouthanglican.org/index.php/blog/comments/communique_of_the_global_south_primates_bangkok_thailand_20_july_2012. <br /><br />It may well be that ++Vunagi didn't see the final draft of the resolution as he had already caught his flight home. However it is equally clear that he and the other primates (including PNG) fully discussed the issue in the preceding days, and that he and they in fact agreed with the final form of the Communique. <br /><br />Now that of course does not mean that anyone from those provinces was at Gafcon II, but I would be very surprised if there weren't. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36716905855627035102013-11-01T11:23:26.126+13:002013-11-01T11:23:26.126+13:001. Perry writes:
"What exactly is the geogra...1. Perry writes:<br /><br />"What exactly is the geographical spread of Gafcon? Was anyone there from the Provinces of Japan /Korea /HK/S and N India /Melanesia/South Africa/Central Africa/Mexico/Brasil /Central America/Ghana /PNG/Philippines..."<br /><br />Good question. It illustrates the fact that we all need to know more about Gafcon. First, some context – Gafcon I in Jerusalem 2008 was attended by delegates from 19 Anglican provinces in 29 countries. Not bad for something organised in a matter of weeks! Gafcon II is said to have been attended by delegates from 29 provinces of the Anglican Communion in 40 countries. I don't know who they all were, but we can work out some of them:<br /><br />Ghana – guaranteed, the Bishop of Sunyani is on the Gafcon Theological Resources Team, and the former Primate is a member of Gafcon. <br /><br />Brazil – guaranteed, an entire diocese broke away from the Anglican Church in Brazil and aligned with Gafcon in 2008, and churches have been planted in other dioceses of Brazil. <br /><br />India – at least one bishop, besides Canon Samuel of course. But I understand there were many more. <br /><br />South Africa – guaranteed. The Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans (i.e. the local arm of Gafcon) in South Africa is strong. It includes many from both Anglican jurisdictions (CESA and ACSA). <br /><br />Central Africa – given its strong involvement in Gafcon over the past few years, there surely must have been many delegates there. I expect these would include the Primate ++Chama. <br /><br />Hong Kong – there were delegates at the first Gafcon in 2008, so reasonable to think that they were there this time.<br /><br />Melanesia and PNG – Very likely. See my separate post about these provinces. <br /><br />2. Perry also writes:<br /><br />"and within the Gafcon world some Provinces could split if push came to shove...."<br /><br />Sure. And the reverse is also true. Every province is susceptible of having the FCA (Gafcon) established there. Western liberals have so far been spectacularly unsuccessful at fomenting division among the main Gafcon provinces, but in the end if they do, so what? Gafcon can cope with division of that kind. <br /><br />"I think in 2018 there would be more than white faces.....though what would result is indeed a question..."<br /><br />I agree. There are clearly those who sympathise with liberal doctrines in all Anglican provinces, just as there are those who oppose them. And there are many who, whilst they may not agree with liberal doctrines, still see attendance at Lambeth as important. Note, for example, that there were many bishops in 2008 who attended both Gafcon I and Lambeth. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-19390434343382894762013-11-01T10:01:07.363+13:002013-11-01T10:01:07.363+13:00"I cannot see how homosexuals seeking the sam..."I cannot see how homosexuals seeking the same rights and obligations as heterosexuals in a faithful, lifelong committed relationship can be so badly misconstrued."<br /><br />Perhaps you cannot 'see how' because here you're speaking as am modern unreflective secular person would, to whom the currency of "rights" seems to obvious as to need no explication, rather than as a biblical and catholic Christian would, to whom God's "rights" over His creation and a fortiori over His Church are paramount.<br />To give just one example: it is simply *wrong* to bring up a child in a homosexual environment and to misuse language, calling two women a child's "mothers" or (more rarely) two men a child's "fathers". This is a necessary entailment of the recent invention of 'same sex marriage', though it was long trailed. The fact that post-Christian western society has decided to reject this and to reconstruct nature by fiat of the human will doesn't change this fact at all. <br />Reflect as Canon Ashenden does, as a Christian pastor concerned to promote holiness in God's people, rather than as a modern secularist, and a different configuration of interests will appear. You evidently don't think homosexual relationships are wrong, but you haven't derived this from the NT or catholic tradition. If you did, you would be quoting chapter and verse. But you can't, so you deploy modern secular talk about 'rights and obligations'.<br />MartinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-89120370980532369262013-11-01T07:46:29.135+13:002013-11-01T07:46:29.135+13:00Greetings
Yes, Gavin’s article you point to, Pete...Greetings<br /><br />Yes, Gavin’s article you point to, Peter, does make some excellent points. Thank you. But it is a curate’s egg. If the core of it, Peter, is the quote you highlight, then it merely degenerates into the sort of oversimplification it eschews and is itself “too blunt an instrument of analysis to wield as carelessly and ubiquitously as it generally is”! I cannot see how homosexuals seeking the same rights and obligations as heterosexuals in a faithful, lifelong committed relationship can be so badly misconstrued. Perhaps because heterosexuals are making such a bad mess of such relationships that Gavin (and you?) are filtering this through heterosexual sinfulness rather than the call to homosexuals to be faithful for life regardless of the temptations we all encounter on that journey. <br /><br />Blessings <br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-42516985268806151432013-11-01T06:01:39.582+13:002013-11-01T06:01:39.582+13:00Thanks Kurt!
There are no plans currently.
My next...Thanks Kurt!<br />There are no plans currently.<br />My next trip is across our Alps to the West Coast ...Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-71828628001345789892013-11-01T02:12:28.046+13:002013-11-01T02:12:28.046+13:00John (Obadiah): no, you have not pigeon-holed me. ...John (Obadiah): no, you have not pigeon-holed me. You usually are quite fair that in that way. One reason, out of many, why I consider you a friend even though we sometimes disagree.<br /><br />By the way, MichaelA, most court decisions thus far have favored TEC. And when it comes to the US Supreme Court, a majority of Justices are RCers. While they are generally conservative, it’s unlikely they will hand down a decision that would damage their church—there are many formally RC parishes here that would JUST LOVE to be able to leave Rome, join TEC or the Lutherans and take their property with them. It’s improbable that even conservative RC Justices would establish legal precedents that would help them do so.<br /><br />Kurt Hill<br />Brooklyn, NY<br />Kurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-70669730527533716902013-11-01T01:54:15.485+13:002013-11-01T01:54:15.485+13:00“Kurt, I would love to have coffee with you - any ...“Kurt, I would love to have coffee with you - any time.”—Father Ron<br /><br />My offer to Peter extends to you, too, Ron! If you ever plan to travel to NYC please let me know in advance. I’d be happy to arrange a little tour for you (as well as to introduce both you and Peter to my Ascension family!)<br /><br />Kurt Hill<br />Brooklyn, NY<br />Kurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-24329016281573272322013-11-01T01:50:16.586+13:002013-11-01T01:50:16.586+13:00“Hi Carl and Kurt. If I am ever in the States, we ...“Hi Carl and Kurt. If I am ever in the States, we must have a coffee together ... :)”—Fr. Carrell<br /><br />At the very least! Seriously, give me some advance notice and let me know how much time you can spend and I’ll work out a little tour of the City and environs, (e.g. Greenwich Village, South<br />Street Seaport, Midtown, etc.) Even arrange a day-trip Upstate along the River Hudson. (This being Halloween here, we could visit Sleepy Hollow—Headless Horseman turf—for example!<br /><br />Kurt Hill<br />Enjoying the fall foliage<br />In Brooklyn, NY<br />Kurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15088910468552250602013-10-31T23:00:07.217+13:002013-10-31T23:00:07.217+13:00Peter, you might care to publish (and certainly re...Peter, you might care to publish (and certainly read) this piece by Gavin Ashenden as someone who (1) bought 'the gay argument' for many years (certainly when I met him years ago); (2) was at Gafcon; (3) understands deeply what the Christian call to transformative holiness (for *everyone, not just the 1.5% who self-identify as homosexual) is about; (4) put his finger on why theological liberals as well as ex-Christians like Andrew Brown are so often such angry, name-calling people:<br />http://drgavsblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/hate-homophobia-and-holiness/<br /><br />MartinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-35718708799577830402013-10-31T22:18:35.047+13:002013-10-31T22:18:35.047+13:00Hi Perry
I used the word "mostly" delibe...Hi Perry<br />I used the word "mostly" deliberately!<br />But if all the while skinned American, Australian, Kiwi, British Isles and Irish bishops, come to the next Lambeth along with bishops from the countries you mention, it will be a mostly white boys meeting. There are of course relatively few female bishops.<br /><br />Wait, England might have some by then!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-33773167149068274122013-10-31T21:30:23.752+13:002013-10-31T21:30:23.752+13:00"the next Lambeth Conference will not amount ..."the next Lambeth Conference will not amount to much more than a mostly white boys club get together to talk about nothing in particular." - P.C.<br /><br />What exactly is the geographical spread of Gafcon? Was anyone there from the Provinces of Japan /Korea /HK/S and N India /Melanesia/South Africa/Central Africa/Mexico/Brasil /Central America/Ghana /PNG/Philippines...and within the Gafcon world some Provinces could split if push came to shove.....I think in 2018 there would be more than white faces.....though what would result is indeed a question...<br />Perry ( Canterbury UK)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com