tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post6818412760768116385..comments2024-03-29T06:58:28.383+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Those French, they know how to thinkPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-30055730646161920282016-08-16T11:19:27.059+12:002016-08-16T11:19:27.059+12:00I think it rather naive for conservative people to...I think it rather naive for conservative people to think that only Western countries are suffering from a state of disillusionment. Those of us up to date with the political situation of Central Africa, for instance, have been recently preoccupied with the warring factions in those African countries - as mentioned at the recent meeting of CAPA, the Anglican Church leaders in Central African. This has nothing to do with Western imperialism or spiritual depravity. Humanity is much more complex than its religious constituency. <br /><br />Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-6854281376742919312016-08-08T19:16:24.981+12:002016-08-08T19:16:24.981+12:00On a purely non-political yet good read basis I re...On a purely non-political yet good read basis I recommend the book, "A wind in the House of Islam".Jeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-52000008762414700172016-08-08T15:36:33.394+12:002016-08-08T15:36:33.394+12:00On the subject at hand this article by Chad Crowle...On the subject at hand this article by Chad Crowley gets to the heart of the current decline and sickness in the West.<br /><br />"By losing control of its understanding of its own history and ceding it to those who impose subjective, egalitarian, and universalist notions, Western civilization has put itself at the mercy of those who are seeking to undermine it. It is only be returning to a specifically Western and unapologetic concept of European history that our identity will be able to survive."<br /><br />https://www.righton.net/2016/05/25/reclaiming-our-ancestors/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-51013825881254274832016-08-08T15:25:24.901+12:002016-08-08T15:25:24.901+12:00Hi Andrei
No earthly kingdom is ever perfect this...Hi Andrei<br /><br />No earthly kingdom is ever perfect this side of the Eschaton. Not the West, or Russia and the East. That there has been geopolitical bumbling which has not helped the situation between the Islamic world and the West is true, just as Russia's intervention if Afghanistan in 1979, or it's more recent actions in Chechnya have also not likely endeared the Islamic world to Russia. And I'm sure Russian arms manufactures did well out of both, and from Russia's catastrophic failure to spark a civil war in the Eastern Ukraine.<br /><br />So there have been failures on all sides. But I do not accept, as I have no good reason to do so, your view that the US and the West are uniquely responsible and driven by some dark conspiracy to start WW3.<br /><br />Moreover, the issues of the West's decline as a Christian based civilisation and Islam's resurgence in militant form have been issues for far longer than the current migrant crisis and ISIS.<br /><br />It is that decline that the article is addressing and which I am interested in discussing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-4391593928449091962016-08-08T14:06:29.295+12:002016-08-08T14:06:29.295+12:00There is much in what you say, Ron, but I am not s...There is much in what you say, Ron, but I am not sure that I would be sending either St Francis or Pope Francis into the middle of ISIS controlled territory today? This modern caliphate does not strike me as to be trusted as much as the caliphate of St Francis' day!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-63882678112584224592016-08-08T14:03:23.036+12:002016-08-08T14:03:23.036+12:00I guess one's own attitude towards people of &...I guess one's own attitude towards people of 'other Faiths' must colour one's understanding of how one ought engage in dialogue with them, or not. It appears that some modern Christian Leaders, like recent Popes and Archbishops of Canterbury have initiated respectful dialogue at the highest level, whereas many 'mere' Christians seem still to prefer oppositionalism, allowing fear to dominate their lives.<br /><br />Blessed Francis of Assisi is said to have taken thre trouble to dialogue with the local Caliph - at the time of the Crusades, a much more dangerous era for both Muslims and Christians than at present - at great risk to his own personal safety. I suppose we are all so self-protective of our own Faith perspective nowadays as to have become increasingly fearful of another Faith perspective.<br /><br />Our Blessed Lord, himself. was much more open to people of different faiths than many of his followers in today's world. But then. He could see into the heart of a person, intuiting the capacity for goodness - something we moderns seem are not able to do. We also seem to fear anyone differtent from ourselves. Where, I wonder, is the old Christian capacity to live without fear, living in trust and Faith in the One, True God Who has redeemed us all?Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27240426682480206332016-08-08T13:20:06.212+12:002016-08-08T13:20:06.212+12:00As at August 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM - but work events...As at August 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM - but work events overtook me ...! But nonetheless I don’t specially re-engage with later comments as this still addresses - mostly.<br /><br />I sense some of these comments here are perhaps missing the point of the original post.<br /><br />There is about the Christian Faith, the events surrounding its inception and original documentation, at least two key features. Firstly, a built-in, inherent check that would ensure both a missionary impetus but also a respect for ‘the other’. Consequently, and secondly, when this Faith inevitably ‘won over’ the ancient Mediterranean world, this was no accident. Nor was the eventual Frankish empire’s morph into Christendom an accident. True; the fruits of this massive social experiment have proven ambivalent long term: we await the parousia still! And yet those very built-in, inherent checks to Christianity’s essential nature remain. [I venture, Andrei, many of your comments are predicated upon these very things ... as are those of others.]<br /><br />In view of the inevitable dialectical comments re Islam (a form of which has triggered a number of incidents recently on French soil after all), I’d only ask: what sorts of <i>founding</i> events and documents basically ‘drive’ Muslims? And how do they stack up over against those of Christianity?<br /><br />Given the essentially ambivalent nature of any and all human beings, <i>which</i> religion - including sundry consequential happenings each has generated, in the form of both clashes and coexistence - might offer the best hope for us all? Bearing in mind too that that vital reality, the secular, is but a fruit of one of them - and only one of them - albeit a bastard step-child one, reflecting yet again that very ambivalence and the ‘delay’ of Messiah’s final Coming such is history’s nature. It’s not irrelevant that Manent is a former director of studies at the École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales. Such a “Sociological Imagination” (C. Wright Mills) is needed to better appraise all these things. Just so too, such a theological perspective, with notably its premises, as that offered by John Milbank’s “Beyond Secular Reason” (main title <i>Theology and Social Theory</i>) could only arise from the Christian Faith, and engage similarly with our 21st C dilemmas far more adequately.<br /><br />PS "WW III" might very well be around the corner - but probably for reasons not mentioned here so far.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-25831332388637816432016-08-08T12:18:40.183+12:002016-08-08T12:18:40.183+12:00Brendon one of the bloodiest conflicts in European...Brendon one of the bloodiest conflicts in European history was the Thirty years war - very cruel Protestant versus Catholic - human history is not pretty. <br /><br />If the French people want to maintain their French Catholic identity then they will have to raise large families, baptize them into the Catholic faith and take them to Mass on Sunday<br /><br />And if significant numbers of French people choose this path then France will be a Catholic country in one hundred years and beyond<br /><br />But if they prefer to spend their allotted time on Earth in the pursuit of ephemeral hedonistic pleasures then the future will belong to someone else.<br /><br />But I personally think World War III is on its way and after that if there is an after that will be a whole new ball gameAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27640507987285315432016-08-08T11:36:42.583+12:002016-08-08T11:36:42.583+12:00Hi Peter
Yes, history is what it is, and in brief...Hi Peter<br /><br />Yes, history is what it is, and in brief posts it’s easy to leave gaps for someone else to highlight. I appreciate that you had a good experience with Muslims in Egypt. I have a young friend who has recently returned from completing his PhD in Oxford who met some wonderful Muslims there. My personal experience with Muslims as employees, and as refuges, and recently as tenants has also been positive.<br /><br />It is Islam, their scriptures and their prophet’s example that’s the problem, and it is becoming a problem again for us in the West. Just how to solve it in (say) France, which has been the subject of this post is extremely problematic. I don’t think Hollande can send tanks into the Muslim suburbs of Paris, and absent violent unrest, neither should he.<br /><br />But what to do? Closing down Salafist mosques and deporting their Imam’s would be a start. I note they are beginning to do that, but for the French PM to say: "France must become a European centre of excellence in the teaching of Islamic theology." Is a bizarre proposition for a supposed defender of western civilization. Of course he means teaching a State sponsored sanitized version of Islamic theology that fits comfortably within a secular western construct. I doubt any self-respecting Imam will be putting their hand up for that.<br /><br />http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/695711/France-to-shut-down-rogue-mosques-to-wipe-out-Jihadi-preaching-amid-major-crackdown<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27279972392713619502016-08-08T11:09:01.626+12:002016-08-08T11:09:01.626+12:00Hi Brendan
I didn't get down to much specifici...Hi Brendan<br />I didn't get down to much specificity re timelines. Not all of Lebanon's history has been under the Ottomans, etc.<br />But, absolutely, there have also been appalling periods of intolerance, and we might note, speaking of the Ottomans, of their holocaust against the Armenians in 1915.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-51977231937891119312016-08-08T11:06:09.700+12:002016-08-08T11:06:09.700+12:00Peter
I’m not sure you would have enjoyed living ...Peter<br /><br />I’m not sure you would have enjoyed living as a Christian under Ottoman dhimmitude, even if you were still allowed to practice your faith to some extent.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi<br /> <br />I’m also not sure if Lebanon or even Egypt (think of recent Coptic persecution) or especially Spain would qualify as examples of Muslim benevolence towards their fellow man.<br /><br />Of course not all Muslims are jihadists… <br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-60645731131717479072016-08-08T10:56:04.626+12:002016-08-08T10:56:04.626+12:00Hi Andrei
I’m not an apologist for American forei...Hi Andrei<br /><br />I’m not an apologist for American foreign policy, neither do I conflate it with Christianity. I am opposed to western intervention in Iraq and Syria, in fact anywhere in the Middle East and pretty much elsewhere on the planet as well for that matter.<br /><br />That said, I have no use for a ‘coexist’ bumper sticker on my car either. <br /><br />Ross Dothat has a ‘must read’ article in the NY Times today on the subject of Father Hamel’s murder, an extract I include below:<br /><br />“In this narrative, which is also the narrative that many secular Europeans reached for, Father Hamel’s murder belongs not to the old iconography of a church militant under siege by unbelievers, but to the modern vision of a multicultural, multireligious society threatened primarily by ignorance and fear. So the appropriate response is to reassert the importance of religious tolerance, to highlight commonalities between French Muslims and their Catholic neighbors, to create a broad category of “peaceful religion” and cast jihadists outside it.<br /><br />These dueling interpretations need not be mutually exclusive. In theory, it should be possible (for a pope, especially!) to plainly call Father Hamel’s death a martyrdom while also rejecting sweeping narratives about Islamic violence or religious war.<br /><br />But there is clearly a point of tension here, a problem synthesizing old and new. An old-fashioned Catholic martyrdom may be possible in a multicultural, late-modern society. But there is still a sense in which it is not supposed to happen here.”<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/opinion/sunday/the-meaning-of-a-martyrdom.html?rref=collection/column/ross-douthat&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0<br /><br />I suspect we may be on opposite sides of Douthat’s ‘dueling interpretations of history’ when it comes to understanding what is going on within Islam at present. I accept that violent jihad is only one valid interpretation of the faith, albeit one exampled by their prophet and being played out in the west today. Whereas you see Mosques and Churches co-existing side by side in peace and harmony.<br /><br />We may both be right to some extent, but I’m inclined not to risk your being wrong.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-59492832929458173492016-08-08T10:13:49.978+12:002016-08-08T10:13:49.978+12:00Hi Andrei, Brendan, Shawn
I appreciate, Andrei, yo...Hi Andrei, Brendan, Shawn<br />I appreciate, Andrei, your resolute attempt to enable readers here to see things from another perspective.<br />I myself, having lived in Cairo, Egypt for nearly a year in the 1980s cannot agree with statements such as "Islam is the enemy of the West". At best some elements in Islam are fanatically anti-Western. Many Muslims aspire to live in the West because they see it as a better place to grow their families and the last thought in their minds is either undermining or overtaking the West. In the complexity of Islam we are seeing those who are fanatically anti-Western being equal opportunity killers of Muslims-who-do-not-share-their-fanaticism.<br />As Andrei rightly points out, there have been significant periods of history in which Christians and Muslims have lived together well (Balkans, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, medieval Spain, etc) and it is well worth asking what has contributed to good relationships breaking down if not leading to civil war etc. Can we Western petrolheads claim innocence in these matters? Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-44611503308732640662016-08-08T10:04:47.640+12:002016-08-08T10:04:47.640+12:00Brendon - I am trying to communicate the idea that...Brendon - I am trying to communicate the idea that people need to look at things from the perspective of other people who have a different culture, history and heritage from their own<br /><br /><i>"... it is no coincidence that those nations that are democratically governed by the rule of law, respect the dignity of the individual, and are relatively free from political and judicial corruption are all primarily countries shaped by the Judeo Christian world view"</i><br /><br />Now Syria gained independence from France after WW2 and the newly independent Syria established itself as a secular democracy and elected Shukri al-Quwatli a leading figure in the Syrian independence movement as its first President<br /><br />But he stood in the way of American and Saudi ambitions to build a pipeline and so the CIA engineered a military coup to replace him in 1949 with someone who would go along with their plans - this is very well documented<br /><br />And thus did democracy die in Syria and everyone in Syria knows this history even if you don't - Democracy was nipped in the bud for geopolitical reasons in Syria back in 1949 - how can democracy flourish if powerful outside actors subvert it for their own purposes?<br /><br />In 1984 I was in Sarajevo, my cousin who I had never met was a figure skater and we, that is my parents and some siblings went to Sarajevo and met her - a happy memory <br /><br />In the main street of Sarajevo in those days and maybe still there was within a couple of hundred meters of each other a Catholic Cathedral, a Mosque and an Orthodox Cathedral - this is the Balkans and you can take joy from this or you can use this to tear the Balkans apart - I choose the former, the Clintons and their cronies chose the later<br /><br />Where do you want to be?Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-82926194277035123142016-08-08T08:45:15.115+12:002016-08-08T08:45:15.115+12:00Hi Andrei
I wasn’t making a defense of Christendo...Hi Andrei<br /><br />I wasn’t making a defense of Christendom, but it is no coincidence that those nations that are democratically governed by the rule of law, respect the dignity of the individual, and are relatively free from political and judicial corruption are all primarily countries shaped by the Judeo Christian world view.<br /><br />I’m very aware of how history has played out over the last 1,500 years, and I’m hard pressed to think of anything good the Ottomans left behind in Europe, unless you count the blood of martyrs. At times you appear to be quite insightful about Islam on this blog, so I’m mystified as to why you feel the need to defend the indefensible.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-43716109255813442352016-08-07T23:55:48.937+12:002016-08-07T23:55:48.937+12:00However, I completely agree with Shawn when he say...<i>However, I completely agree with Shawn when he says “Islam has always been the enemy of the West and of Christian Europe. It has been in an almost constant state of warfare with Christendom for over a thousand years. It has never been in a state of peace with Christendom. </i><br /><br />Christendom has never been in a state of peace with itself Brendon<br /><br />And if you have a shred of intellectual honesty you will realize more people have died in England since WW2 from IRA terrorism than Islamic terrorism and more in Spain from Basque separatist terrorism than Islamic and so forth<br /><br />History is the rise and fall of Empires - The British empire rose to dominance from the result of the seven years war (nothing to do with Islam) and created an empire upon which the sun never set and to hold onto it did atrocious things - like tying Muslims over the muzzles of cannons and firing them to blow them into little pieces<br /><br />How do you think the opium wars look to the Chinese? <br /><br />It is a matter of historical record that the Catholic Crusaders sacked the Christian city Constantinople in 1203 and the Ottoman Turks sacked it in 1453 - which was the greater crime?<br /><br />And the the Ottoman Empire expanded through the Balkans to the gates of Vienna and then was pushed back<br /><br />And as the Ottoman Empire declined WW1 broke out because the Catholic Austrians wanted to grab what the Ottomans had once held in the Balkans - And then the victors of that conflict grabbed what they could of the Ottoman empire and divided it up among themselves <br /><br />Did you know that the agreement was that Russia would have the Dardanelles and Constantinople, France would get Syria which includes Lebanon while Britain get Palestine, Jordan and Iraq - this was all worked out early 1915 before the Gallipoli campaign so all those brave ANZACS were fighting and dying for territory set aside for the Tsar<br /><br />Funny old world - the Tsar never got his cut but the Brits and the Frogs did get what they wanted come 1918<br /><br />The British were fighting in Iraq in the 1920s, it is even alleged they used chemical warfare there in those days. Some things never changeAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-76734042152909519232016-08-07T22:25:16.834+12:002016-08-07T22:25:16.834+12:00I have appreciated reading the commentary on this ...I have appreciated reading the commentary on this post, largely because we are engaging with the question of our time, Islam and its compatibility or otherwise with western ‘Christianised’ culture.<br /><br />I agree with Andrei when he says “I have actually found that Muslims have a closer affinity with Faithful Christians than with the Secular”. I have employed Muslims and I know they appreciated the fact that I was a Christian and treated them with the same dignity and respect as I did other staff. The reality is that Muslims are somewhat like Catholics. (or Anglicans) They respond to the teaching and example of their faith and its founder on a continuum; nominally at one end of the spectrum and fanatically at the other.<br /><br />Well, I’m not sure I have met a fanatical Anglican. Unless you count the former Wizard of Christchurch, although how much the Church is willing to own him is another thing. (chuckle).<br /><br />However, I completely agree with Shawn when he says “Islam has always been the enemy of the West and of Christian Europe. It has been in an almost constant state of warfare with Christendom for over a thousand years. It has never been in a state of peace with Christendom. And because of its nature, it never will be.”<br /><br />That is the sad reality. It matters little how many ‘well integrated’ Muslims we know; they are not making the running in Islam today. It is those at the other end of the spectrum who are defining their faith, and sadly we are only at the beginning of our troubles. Whether ISIS exists is immaterial to the challenges we face. Before them it was al-Qaeda, after them it will be another entity, and after them yet another.<br /><br />Our political leadership has not yet fully grasped this, or perhaps more realistically they understand the problem but lack the courage or the will to address it. Seventy years of relative peace has produced a crop of politicians in the west who are entirely ill-equipped to deal with the challenges of a militant Islam that is running low level asymmetric warfare against us. Sadly, I’m talking here about those Muslims living amongst us in the west, not those living in Syria or Iraq.<br /><br />It is a numbers game. The more Muslims we have in the west, the greater the threat of Islamic terrorism. The only realistic defense is at the border by halting Muslim immigration. To that end, the public is ahead of our politicians, perhaps with the exception of Trump, but that’s another story.<br /><br />I appreciated the testimony about those of with other faith stories coming to Christ here in NZ. However, these are the exceptions when it comes to Islam. The very nature of Islam and how it works for those who take it seriously mitigates against integration, and friendship with the infidel.<br /><br />If we had a strong and robust Christianity here in NZ, then it might be a different story, but we don’t. In many respects our culture is exhausted and in need of spiritual renewal. We offer Muslims nothing to integrate into. We have recently banned the mention of Christmas at our resettlement centres, with the full support of our HRC commissioner.<br /><br />Islam may be brittle and also in need of life support, but it senses our weakness and is prepared to exploit it. Wishing it were otherwise doesn’t help. To that extent culturally we are little different to the French. All that separates us from their problems is our geographical remoteness from North Africa and the Middle East, and our 1% Muslim population as opposed to their 7% to 10%. If we had the same numbers, we would have the same problems.Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-65384850012525132432016-08-07T21:35:05.117+12:002016-08-07T21:35:05.117+12:00Hi Andrei
"Muddled and confused" are the...Hi Andrei<br />"Muddled and confused" are the twin siblings of "cock up" theory.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-32427726877575034252016-08-07T21:29:18.106+12:002016-08-07T21:29:18.106+12:00I am aware of your conspiracy theory that ISIS is ...<i>I am aware of your conspiracy theory that ISIS is a Western/American creation in which Islam is only a cover rather than their primary motivation.</i><br /><br />Shawn there is something clearly wrong with the narrative on the <i>"War on Terror"</i> that has justified military interventions in more countries than I can enumerate easily <br /><br />But if we look at Syria where ISIS as we call it gained its strength when it captured al-Raqqah thus becoming a major player we might ask some impertinent questions<br /><br />Now if ISIS is to be defeated who is going to take al-Raqqah and hold it?<br /><br />Really there is only one army on the ground that can and that is the Syrian Arab army <br /><br />And yet the USA is providing arms to <i>moderate rebels</i> to be used to defeat the Syrian Arab army - this isn't conspiracy theory this is public record and a vote in Congress for $500 million dollars for this purpose - a lot of money don't you think?<br /><br />What do you suppose becomes of these weapons when they arrive in Syria? Into whose hands do they fall? And how do they contribute to the defeat of ISIS if they are used by whatever group who has them to fight the Syrian Arab army who are the ones who have the best chance of defeating ISIS?<br /><br />At the very least this policy is muddled and confused - don't you think?<br /><br />And you might also ask who profits financially from this policy if not the American arms manufacturers?<br /><br />That's enough for now - but the chaos in Libya might point to the intended future for Syria because like Iraq and Yemen, Afghanistan and Sudan there is no end in sight to the bloodshedAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-40166107447508923322016-08-07T21:12:54.356+12:002016-08-07T21:12:54.356+12:00I am aware of your conspiracy theory that ISIS is ...<i>I am aware of your conspiracy theory that ISIS is a Western/American creation in which Islam is only a cover rather than their primary motivation. I can only say that I do not share that view, and I think it comes more from your own anti-Western beliefs than from a serious analysis of ISIS itself.</i><br /><br />There are two directions to take from this comment Shawn so there will be two responses<br /><br />(1) <i>" anti-Western beliefs"</i> - not so There is much to admire about the West but is is far from perfect and it does not have a monopoly on the truth<br /><br />There are other societies whose ways are different that have their own virtues which may make for a better outcome than our western ones and you need to be open to that<br /><br />You and I both know humanity was expelled from the Garden of Eden and in our fallen State we can never restore ourselves to it - There is no perfect society and there never will be and that every attempt to bring humanity to nirvana through some political philosophy has been catastrophic - from the Age of Enlightenment to Pol Pot much blood has been shed<br /><br /><i>"Put not your trust in Princes..."</i>Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-88689144375880849092016-08-07T21:07:59.980+12:002016-08-07T21:07:59.980+12:00Hey Shawn
Yes worth preserving and affirming as ...Hey Shawn<br /><br />Yes worth preserving and affirming as a part of the global body of the one church; but defending against who? The greatest threat to the decline of Western Christianity (although I do think Christianity can be quite culturally different between Western countries) seems to me to be attributed to the lack of the faith in the faith of our own countrymen or women (better be gender neutral). How to preserve it or share it except to pray, follow Jesus, and share the gospel?Jeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-5964311426211281572016-08-07T18:42:38.340+12:002016-08-07T18:42:38.340+12:00Hi Jean,
Yes Christianity is a faith for all nati...Hi Jean,<br /><br />Yes Christianity is a faith for all nations. It is also an incarnational faith, and part of this means that it binds with and transforms the cultures within which it takes root. Just as the growth of Christianity in China means that we will have a uniquely Chinese form of Christianity and a Christianised form of Chinese culture, so we have a uniquely Western form arising from the long historical process of interaction between the Faith and Western culture. And this Western Christianity is, to me, worth preserving, affirming, and defending. <br /><br />Hi Andrei,<br /><br />I am aware of your conspiracy theory that ISIS is a Western/American creation in which Islam is only a cover rather than their primary motivation. I can only say that I do not share that view, and I think it comes more from your own anti-Western beliefs than from a serious analysis of ISIS itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-59268440021744267102016-08-07T18:28:07.791+12:002016-08-07T18:28:07.791+12:00Jean is right - you choose to be a Christian, nobo...Jean is right - you choose to be a Christian, nobody can make you be one <br /><br />It has always been an issue for the Church when it is fashionable or required by Authority to be a "Christian" and people go along with Christianity to get along in the world<br /><br />St John Chrysostom preached against this and got deposed twice for doing so and the Desert Fathers took themselves to the desert to get away from worldly Christianity<br /><br />But if our leaders are Christians and lead Godly lives setting good examples we will prosper and if they don't we will fail<br /><br />Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-29563434134195648152016-08-07T17:48:29.491+12:002016-08-07T17:48:29.491+12:00"The West is Christianity and Christianity is..."The West is Christianity and Christianity is the West"<br /><br />Perhaps, once the West embraced Christianity, and we originating from such countries can be thankful for the influence it has had on our socio-political and ethical upbringings.<br /><br />Yet I cannot but bring to mind of late how the missionary journeys of the first Apostles were in places such as modern day Turkey, Syria, Israel - and did St Thomas end up in India? Christianity is not a Western faith it is faith for all nations.<br /><br />For near on 200 years France has been primarily a secular country due to post French Revolution attacks against Christianity. They recently even banned the broadcasting of Christms services along with the burqa of course. The reason half of their immigrants are basically from Morocco and Algeria is because of the colonisation of these countries by France, as you state Shawn after Charles Martel's attack against the Pirates in these countries who liked to take slaves from European coastal settlements (athough half the pirates were rogue Europeans). The colonisation inevitably created a relationship between the countries especially when the citizen's of Morocco and Algeria fought and supported France during WWII. Around 4% of the French population are practising Muslims. Now the number of Catholics attending Mass in France is low, half are not of French nationality and around 40% are older than 65. <br /><br />It is difficult to know if some of the attacks such as that against the Priest are organised by ISIS or merely the acts of random individuals who themselves have bought into the propoganda of ISIS. I do agree though Shawn, I think what these acts aim to do is create an impression of ISIS having power and influence - however, one wonders how killing an elderly priest and taking captive a small group of parishoners can symbolise anything but weakness and cowardice. Then there is the heartwrenching wretchedness of brainwashing a 19 year old youth into giving up his life for such a pointless act.<br /><br />I do agree with Andrei in that I have found it easier to talk about my faith with other people who hold a different faith than with those of no faith. And it has been with astonishment I have witnessed a south east Asian friend become a Christian in NZ and join a home-group with those from the same ethnic origin - they held an outreach preaching the gospel to non-christians they knew and 60 people turned up (they are a group of 5 people). It is this reason, Shawn, that I find the focus on countering terrorism or preserving Christianity through less immigration or nationalism a challenge; sharing the gospel to those who do not know Christ to me remains the only answer I see. Acknowledging of course one must be wise in the administration of a country, balancing the needs of different groups, resources, and preserving cultural heritage is important. <br /><br />Blessings<br />Jean<br />Jeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-49388326030824592272016-08-07T17:29:29.988+12:002016-08-07T17:29:29.988+12:00Shawn I beg to differ - ISIS you never heard of un...Shawn I beg to differ - ISIS you never heard of until they were poised to take Mosul which they did and now hold<br /><br />al-Raqqah and Mosul are very valuable pieces of real estate and the warlords that hold them are ex Iraqi Military and their foot soldiers are mercenaries, some perhaps with allegiance to Wahhabist ideology others perhaps paying lip service to it - they are Iraqis, some Syrians, Chechens, Uyghurs and others including a small number of Westerners<br /><br />The foreigners were permitted to enter Syria in the days before ISIS to help destabilize Syria and also as a cadre who would cause problems in their homelands on return<br /><br />But those warlords who control that real estate have no interest in destabilizing the West, nor for that matter the North Caucasus or Xinjiang - those that permitted their entry to Syria in the first place do like the idea of troubles in the North Caucasus or Xinjiang - though not the West of course<br /><br />And atrocities committed in the West in the name of these Warlords is actually counter productive to their aims which is to hold onto the territory they now control which makes them very wealthy men.<br /><br />The powers that be in the West covet the real estate now held by these warlords and have given them the name ISIS, ISIL etc a label also used for others they want to drop bombs on elsewhere e.g. in Libya<br /><br />But this makes the label attractive to disaffected young and not so young men in the West who align themselves with what they perceive ISIS to be<br /><br />On this level it is all about real estate<br /><br />On the another level it is all about disaffected, anti social young men and that is a different conversation<br /><br />Conflating the two will not solve either problemAndreinoreply@blogger.com