tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post7812769322726797355..comments2024-03-29T06:58:28.383+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Are the Scots showing the English the 'way forward'?Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-67118798424530839492015-05-31T21:04:06.223+12:002015-05-31T21:04:06.223+12:00May 24!May 24!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66377872460134571912015-05-31T19:50:02.904+12:002015-05-31T19:50:02.904+12:00Peter, May 27 at 8.07pm was me. Thousand apologies...Peter, May 27 at 8.07pm was me. Thousand apologies, though I suspect my style was clear. Jean knew who I was. The omission of my name was an error. NickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-32951957419657708042015-05-28T21:34:12.368+12:002015-05-28T21:34:12.368+12:00Only three things Ron re your reply of this mornin...Only three things Ron re your reply of this morning: (1) when I wrote "we"/"us", this is not as per some royalty; I mean simply the plural. Therefore half your comment is "genuinely mistaken"; (2) Likewise, "a form of human brokenness" implies just that - there are many, many forms of brokenness; (3) It's a pity you did not engage with the real substance of the comment re "interpretation and understanding of experience" ... For this is the crux.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-49999037473501054772015-05-28T16:07:29.683+12:002015-05-28T16:07:29.683+12:00"Christ forbids divorce of a valid marriage -..."Christ forbids divorce of a valid marriage - the "exception" is "unlawful sexual intercourse" in which case there was never a valid marriage"<br /><br />That is a peculiar doctrine of the medieval church, but it is not Christ's teaching. Marriage is marriage. There is no provision in scripture for annulments. <br /><br />Christ permitted Christians to divorce because of adultery by the other partner, or because the other partner abandoned the marriage. He did not suggest that there was never a marriage in the first place. <br /><br />"So I repeat to you: why do you regard blessing committed homosexuals evil, but do not decry the NZ Anglican current situation?"<br /><br />How do you know what I do or do not decry? Sorry, but this argument is as old as the hills: "That man over there slanders people, so don't criticize me when I steal", or "You can't say I am sinning by losing my temper unless you first go and sort out that other brother's tax evasion". <br /><br />I have never commented on the situation in New Zealand because I do not live there and I am not a member of its Anglican Church. But I can assure you that here in Sydney Diocese we decry divorce that is not sanctioned by scripture. So don't go making accusations of bias that you can't back up. <br /><br />Christ permits divorce in some circumstances but not in most. He does not permit homosexual practice in any circumstances (at least that I can think of). The person who commits either sin will be called to account for it. If you are in either situation, then repent now before it is too late. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-33367883865600113632015-05-28T15:53:47.943+12:002015-05-28T15:53:47.943+12:00"If one is gay, one knows it instinctively&qu..."If one is gay, one knows it instinctively"<br /><br />That would logically follow, if you assume that people are born gay. But there is no rational reason to believe that. Science doesn't support the idea. <br /><br />Some people probably have more of a propensity to indulge in homosexual behaviour, just as everyone has more of a propensity to commit some sins than others - some of us are more predisposed to slander, commit adultery etc. But a propensity is not the same thing as saying that anyone is "born gay". We are all born heterosexual. <br /><br />"You don't need any excuse for it. It just happens."<br /><br />So does any type of sinful behaviour if we do not take care to avoid it. <br /><br />"Gays are no more broken than the rest of humanity!"<br /><br />That is true, because they are human, and all human beings are sinners. However, that does not affect the truth that heterosexual behaviour within marriage is not sinful, whereas homosexual behaviour in any context is sinful. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-90388619854108677602015-05-28T12:07:05.649+12:002015-05-28T12:07:05.649+12:00"God's judgment will fall most heavily on..."God's judgment will fall most heavily on the Christian leaders who do this, and on anyone in the Church who shares in their evil work. And we who are faithful to Jesus are called upon to break fellowship with those who have apostasized in this way so that they may be warned and have some chance of repentance before it is too late." - MichaelA: 25 May -<br /><br />This sounds very much like a self-anointed O.T. prophetic judgement.<br /><br />And as for "we who are faithful to Jesus"! Where does that epithet come from? Are you not aware that there are LGBT people who are also 'faithful to Jesus'?<br />Your 'us and them' philosophy, sadly, seems far from Gospel Tradition.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-80948899128992239852015-05-28T08:17:15.255+12:002015-05-28T08:17:15.255+12:00Dear Ron,
Thank you for your attempt to describe s...Dear Ron,<br />Thank you for your attempt to describe so eloquently a form of human brokenness. While your description does indeed begin to show some of the multifactorial process that leads/might lead to what we term “homosexuality”, it is with regards to both the <i>interpretation</i> of this complex human brokenness, and in <i>how</i> the Courteous Good Lord would seek to <i>address</i> this poverty that many of us part company with you. And many of us have an abundance of experience which seems so often to trump any reasoned theological argument for you. It’s just that this experience too is rather differently interpreted and finally understood; for the manner in which our Gracious Physician addresses these particular wounds is far, far more complex - and beautiful - than the present Zeitgeist can ever imagine ...Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-89287919558244391782015-05-27T11:52:34.805+12:002015-05-27T11:52:34.805+12:00Erratum:
In my last post (May 26, 1.40pm) in the ...Erratum:<br /><br />In my last post (May 26, 1.40pm) in the last line of my penultimate paragraph I meant to say the word 'unhappiness" - not 'happiness', which nulliifes the impact of what I was trying to say.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-38559877549555121232015-05-27T08:06:59.326+12:002015-05-27T08:06:59.326+12:00Hi Father Ron
My apologies I incorrectly spelt a ...Hi Father Ron<br /><br />My apologies I incorrectly spelt a word in the paragraph you quoted that alters its meaning significantly. Rather than 'for reasons they are aware of" I was intending to write "for reasons they are unaware of". In this regard I am referring to those who as you extrapolate in your post recognise they are attracted to the same sex as they grow up. <br /><br />From my own observations and interactions there are people who are homosexual who have had one of the three life experiences I mentioned. There is no doubt all or most experience pain or heartache as they grapple at points with their own inner turmoil or others attitudes. While the stories of those who recognise they are attracted to the opposite sex as they grow up appear most frequently, their are other reasons same-sex attraction develops and those who have such experiences are no less scarred by them albeit they may not have been 'born gay'.<br /><br />While I have met bi-sexual people I do not know enough of or about their personal experiences to comment.<br /><br />Blessings<br />JeanJeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-30754868093740769812015-05-26T21:41:46.141+12:002015-05-26T21:41:46.141+12:00"a) Same-sex attraction appears to have sever..."a) Same-sex attraction appears to have several origins. I have known a person who having a heart defect was ridiculed at school due to his un-masculine behaviour he then grew into the identity others placed on him; some who have been abused sexually by the same-sex later develop an attraction for the same-sex; and then there is those who it appears for reasons they are aware of develop an attraction to the opposite sex." - Jean -<br /><br />Dear Jean. You'll have to do better than this is you ever hope to understand the etiology of homosexuality.<br /><br />I suggest you try to speak with a few more gay people, who may be able to help you to better understand what makes a person 'lesbian' or 'gay' - or even bi-sexual, a much more difficult, but maybe more common factor in sexual differentiation. <br /><br />If one is gay, one knows it instinctively. You don't need any excuse for it. It just happens. A child, even from a very young age - whatever his social situation of family or social class - may become aware of the gender he is drawn to, sexually; not in the immediate family circle, but in interaction with others outside of that group.<br /><br />As the child grows, and certain characteristics become visible - of this attraction to same-gender persons - it becomes obvious to the child that s/he is most comfortable interacting (not sexually, in the earliest stages) with people of the same gender. At this time, it may also become obvious to parents and maybe siblings, who often try to re-orient the affections and behaviour of the same-sex attracted child/youth. This can cause emotional conflict with the parson concerned, which may lead to self-doubt and lack of communication - even to the point of questioning the purpose for one's life.<br /><br />From this very basic sketch of early-childhood self-recognition of one's 'difference' from one's peers, it may be seen how difficult it might be for a gay or lesbian child to confide in their parents - let alone siblings. There are toise in this situation who will struggle all of their lives to conform to the hetersexual expectations of other people for their lives. The prospect of possible exposure - for who and what they really are, in terms of their innate sexual attraction - can be a constant threat leading; for some, to thoughts of suicide or self-harm; for others a desperate attempt to seek security in heterosexual marriage, or others, maybe life in a religious community - all of which can tend to lead to unsatisfactory life fulfilment and certainly, happiness for them and for the other significant people involved. <br /><br />So please, Jean, and others who speak lightly of homosexuality - as though it is something pathologically disastrous, unnatural or merely self-willed; do try speaking in depth, and without a prior disposition to criticise or moralise, to gay people who, because of their deep Christian Faith have come to terms with their intrinsic sexuality and are bale to live creatively with its consequences for them, personally.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-91548595500611196102015-05-26T21:09:59.091+12:002015-05-26T21:09:59.091+12:00" Specifically, they are calling a homosexual..." Specifically, they are calling a homosexual relationship "marriage" when it is not, and they are stating that homosexual acts are not sinful. That is indeed a serious matter." - MichaelA -<br /><br />Here we go again, MichaelA - the gospel according to MichaelA - is not any sort of 'Good News' to any intrinsically homosexual Christian who simply wants to avoid the sin of sexual promiscuity, by dint of seeking a legal life-time partnership with the person they love and want to spend the rest of their life with (a situation that some heterosexuals find, seemingly impossible). <br /><br />Despite your insistence that 'marriage- is not a state for homosexuals; the law of Aotearoa/New Zealand (where I live) this is simply not true!!! You cannot pin your own conservative values upon other people!<br /><br />As Mike says here, why does the Church insist on refusing the security of legal marriage to faithful, consenting monogamous Same-Sex couples, when they actually allow serial monogamists who happen to be heterosexual to enter into further sexual relationships with the blessing of the Church?Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15115173970134422902015-05-26T11:45:33.215+12:002015-05-26T11:45:33.215+12:00I have to in all honestly say I don't know wha...I have to in all honestly say I don't know what the best way forward is but these are points that circulate for me.<br /><br />a) Same-sex attraction appears to have several origins. I have known a person who having a heart defect was ridiculed at school due to his un-masculine behaviour he then grew into the identity others placed on him; some who have been abused sexually by the same-sex later develop an attraction for the same-sex; and then there is those who it appears for reasons they are aware of develop an attraction to the opposite sex.<br />b) Leaving aside theology and culture there are practical considerations - children as I have mentioned previously, how NZ society as a whole (not church alone) will react to instances where same-sex attracted individuals were put in places of leadership in the church such as youth leaders - here I am not questioning the integrity of the individual per se but the reaction of parents to such. Noting while on the 'outside' most kiwi's will appear accepting of homosexuality often their behaviour does not reflect this when people come face to face with the practical implications.<br />c) The extreme bitterness and vehemency towards others that has developed on both sides in countries such as the US and Canada and the UK within the church. Here I respect Vicky Beeching in her approach of lets ''shut up' stop talking and seek God. Having revealed her same-sex attraction to the public she abhors both the verbal abuse she receives from those who condemn her, as well as those who reject and abuse people who hold a different viewpoint as they too are her close friends, such as her parents. I was amazed to hear of diocese in Canada who will not employ ordinand's who hold to traditional marriage.<br />d) There are genuine cases of LGTBI orientated people who discover a sense of release sexual and emotional through christ, this can be evidenced in such ministries as a woman with AIDS who began an outreach to male prostitutes (Brooklyn).<br />e) Comments along the lines of the church being out of touch with society hold little sway. From its inception the Christs teaching has both been different from and often in challenge to that of society at large. Equally while not remaining silent on issues of the common good,, as CS Lewis said one does not expect a person who is not a Xtian to act as one whatever their sexuality.<br />e) And finally of course scripture and our interpretation of it.<br /><br />You will notice the points do not relate merely to the 'blessing of same sex marriages' as to be discussed by synod. This is because I think one cannot consider such without seeing the view down the road, the ordination and participation of same-sex couples in church leadership and in regards to all that marriage implies. <br /><br />Blessings<br />JeanJeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-84592829130718576032015-05-26T10:33:42.292+12:002015-05-26T10:33:42.292+12:00It is my understanding - not The Lord but I (as Pa...It is my understanding - not The Lord but I (as Paul would say) - that Jesus teachings on divorce reads along the lines of; it is not how it is 'meant to be' was not from the beginning; men/women who divorce their wives (except for unfaithfulness) in order to marry another commit adultery, and cause their ex-partner to do likewise; Moses permitted divorce because of the hardness of men's hearts but this is to be the exception, and the right of (mostly in that age men) - to divorce under the law was not a license to do as they please. The Old Testament biblical concepts of divorce as they relate to God and His people listed idolatry (unfaithfulness) as adultery but this was also extended to not following the principles of God's in relationship, such as in Malachi dealing treacherously and with violence.<br /><br />Mike you are in some ways correct, there is litttle difference between the divorce statistics in churches and the general populace we are not doing well in this area. However, not all divorces or second marriages I believe come under the adultery or fornication banner. <br /><br />Anonymous, it is a point on which the Anglican/Protestant and Catholic Churches disagree theologically. In my understanding, the Catholic Churches hold to once married always married because they read the scripture of only divorcing due to marital unfaithfulness as the only reason. Also Paul in Roman's (actually as an example of us no longer being under the law) states under the law that a woman who is married to a man should remain so while he lives, death frees her from such a bond. He uses it as example as once dead to the law, as we are in Christ, we are no longer bound by it. Hence, the perspectives are different from those I mention above.<br /><br />Ultimately I do not think divorce in the church adds anything to the consideration of same-sex blessing. Nor do I think many in the church who face it take the action lightly.<br /><br />Blessings JeanJeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-35138870449046477902015-05-25T22:11:43.875+12:002015-05-25T22:11:43.875+12:00MichaelA
Christ forbids divorce of a valid marria...MichaelA<br /><br />Christ forbids divorce of a valid marriage - the "exception" is "unlawful sexual intercourse" in which case there was never a valid marriage, and obviously separation of this illicit union is allowed by Christ. So please don't accuse me of departing from Jesus' teaching without even listing the usual casuistry I have already mentioned. <br /><br />As for churches that regularly allow remarriage of divorcees - NZ Anglicanism is one such (the focus here) all the way to bishops. All without issue or current debate. <br /><br />So I repeat to you: why do you regard blessing committed homosexuals evil, but do not decry the NZ Anglican current situation?<br /><br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62382801958042391972015-05-25T15:26:42.077+12:002015-05-25T15:26:42.077+12:00"The integrity of Christianity is at stake wh..."The integrity of Christianity is at stake when those who in NT-Jesus terms bless adultery and fornication of sequentially-monogamous heterosexuals, but vociferously condemn homosexuals seeking to express God's lifelong covenant in their relationship."<br /><br />No, it isn't. <br /><br />Firstly, Christ allows divorce in certain circumstances. Your posts make no distinction and thus depart from His teaching. <br /><br />Secondly, I can think of very few churches who permit second marriages in defiance of scripture. I am sure there are many instances where it happens, just as there are many instances of theft, oppression, slander and a multitude of other sins occurring churches. But they aren't permitted by the church. <br /><br />This brings me onto the third point: The issue here is that Christian leaders are calling that which is sin in God's sight to be not sin. Specifically, they are calling a homosexual relationship "marriage" when it is not, and they are stating that homosexual acts are not sinful. That is indeed a serious matter. <br /><br />God's judgment will fall most heavily on the Christian leaders who do this, and on anyone in the Church who shares in their evil work. And we who are faithful to Jesus are called upon to break fellowship with those who have apostasized in this way so that they may be warned and have some chance of repentance before it is too late. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-33105577018287345152015-05-25T10:59:25.356+12:002015-05-25T10:59:25.356+12:00Anon Mike @ 2:11 - “What makes this issue SO diffe...Anon Mike @ 2:11 - “What makes this issue SO different? Answer that question honestly, at least to oneself, if it's too scary to do publicly, and we may start being on the way to what is really at stake here.”<br /><br />You ask a very good series of questions, in my view. I’ve been pondering these matters in private and public for a good few years and here’s my tuppence worth.<br /><br />At root it would seem to boil down to two opposing views of human being:<br /><br />1. Humans viewed as autonomous self-positing personal subjects;<br />2. Humans viewed as creatures, “wonderfully and fearfully made” (Ps 139), “in the image and likeness of God”, <i>ish/ishshah</i> (Gen 1-2); and so also accountable to their Creator (“where are you, Adam?”).<br /><br />Curiously, the former view is derived from the Tradition of the latter, such that we can (and should) see it as a bastard step-child of the Christian ethos and world-view. As a result too, among secular western liberal democracies, the call for same-sex marriage is totally predictable and even logical: the outcome of the Irish referendum is no surprise at all. And yet from the stance of the latter, it is a <b><i>tragic irony</i></b> - in the fullest senses of those two words.<br /><br />Here too is another, fuller set of reasons for us to consider, from Edith Humphrey:<br /><br />http://www.augustinecollege.org/papers/EH_30June03.htmBryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-38627089540509605422015-05-24T22:43:13.681+12:002015-05-24T22:43:13.681+12:00Hi Anonymous at 8.07
Please use your name!Hi Anonymous at 8.07<br />Please use your name!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66172465959339626632015-05-24T21:59:47.994+12:002015-05-24T21:59:47.994+12:00Hearing - before the Sung Mass at St. Michael'...Hearing - before the Sung Mass at St. Michael's this morning - of the result of the referendum for Equal Marriage in Ireland (a 'Catholic' country)' and feeling that God might be in the vote somewhere; I must say that today's Pentecost Celebration was joyful.<br /><br />As the Vicar and I anointed the hands of the large congregation - for service in the world in the name of Christ - I could not help feeling the 'great love of God as revealed in The Son' was equipping us to 'go out to all the world and tell the Good News' - of God's Love for ALL people!<br /><br />Come, Holy Spirit; fill the hearts of your people with the fire of God's Love. Amen, Alleluia!Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-87723962821041186462015-05-24T20:07:13.696+12:002015-05-24T20:07:13.696+12:00Peter, Mike has a point. This really is not for me...Peter, Mike has a point. This really is not for me to say, but do evangelicals need to repent of allowing an almost sacramental divorce. From a sola scriptura point of view, gay marriage is trivial if you allow heterosexual divorce. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-85242351968642009322015-05-23T09:25:31.575+12:002015-05-23T09:25:31.575+12:00Well Ron; all I can say by way of reply is that pe...Well Ron; all I can say by way of reply is that perhaps your very comment is itself a reflection of Q.2 in its entirety.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66428357771733424492015-05-22T23:05:24.151+12:002015-05-22T23:05:24.151+12:00"2. Tied in with this is a real doozy: how/wh..."2. Tied in with this is a real doozy: how/why do people become genuinely mistaken?" - Dr. Bryden Black -<br /><br />Why do I get the idea that everyone else but B.B. has 'become genuinely mistaken' - in this remark? If this issue is so clear to B.B., how is it that so many others feel differently?<br /><br />Dogmatic pronouncements don't quite fit the bill nowadays. Dwelling in the past doesn't cut the mustard anymore. Perhap the upcoming Season of Pentecost might open a few closed minds bringing further enlightenment - about the reality if life, as it really is lived; not just from the history books. "Come, Holy Spirit..." Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-11927724160066117592015-05-22T14:16:02.926+12:002015-05-22T14:16:02.926+12:00Well Peter; as I’ve said before, this scenario pro...Well Peter; as I’ve said before, this scenario prompts some real soul searching, facilitated by three related questions.<br /><br />1. What has brought us to this position? What has precipitated this outcome, where two opposing, contradictory, irreconcilable stances are squaring off, within the same institutional space? Answers will need to engage with the history of the last 300 years, culturally, sociologically, philosophically, and morally. We will need to get right down to root paradigms, and the reasons for paradigm shifts in society.<br /><br />2. Tied in with this is a real doozy: how/why do people become genuinely mistaken? And the word “become” is paramount. It’s not just that people might <i><b>be</b></i> mistaken; it’s rather the history behind such error that is crucial: what dynamics bring about such a stance? And this question 2 might very well apply to both ‘sides’, to degrees large(r) and/or small(er).<br /><br />3. Lastly, and vitally, <i>given for the moment</i> that the two stances as outlined in Motion 30, 1 (a) and (b), do have their respective “integrities”, and given a way forward can be found institutionally whereby these two might live ‘under one roof’ [both massive assumptions, I realise], nonetheless what integrity might this new entity <b>itself</b> possess?<br /><br />Well; there we all have it ... And the outcome of such careful archaeological/genealogical work will, I suggest, only show how illogical and impossible it will be to keep these ‘good folk’ within one and the same house ... And thereafter history, especially eschatological history, will be the judge.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-8068448355386237902015-05-22T02:11:32.217+12:002015-05-22T02:11:32.217+12:00Philosophers are not at all convinced that saying ...Philosophers are not at all convinced that saying 2+2=4 is saying anything more than "All triangles have three sides." (See Frege's criterion on analytic truth, and read Bertrand Russell and the young Ludwig Wittgenstein). I think reducing people's desire to follow God's will in the most intimate aspect of their lives to a five-year-old's arithmetic question concerning. And what is it that makes this question so urgent? Christians cannot agree on baptism, communion, ordination, how Christ saves us, whether Adam is a historical person, divorce and remarriage, God's wrath, the roles of women, war-pacifism, ... need I go on?! What makes this issue SO different? Answer that question honestly, at least to oneself, if it's too scary to do publicly, and we may start being on the way to what is really at stake here.<br /><br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-20578645919416839782015-05-22T02:02:33.313+12:002015-05-22T02:02:33.313+12:00Once the pass that "marriage is for life"...Once the pass that "marriage is for life" was surrendered, the insistance on "one man, one woman" becomes clearly about attitudes to homosexuals more than about "retaining marriage as it was". The on-this-site oft-repeated "two wrongs don't make a right" sounds extremely hollow after many years now of nothing being done about the first "wrong". The plain reading of the Bible is much clearer about the first wrong than the second, and, casuistry notwithstanding, the issue is much deeper than agreeing, as is easily done, on a God-sourced anthropology. The integrity of Christianity is at stake when those who in NT-Jesus terms bless adultery and fornication of sequentially-monogamous heterosexuals, but vociferously condemn homosexuals seeking to express God's lifelong covenant in their relationship. <br /><br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54597111027090661522015-05-20T11:26:06.495+12:002015-05-20T11:26:06.495+12:00"Precisely Fr Ron, and you should be very car..."Precisely Fr Ron, and you should be very careful of making judgments about other people. We all should be careful to be like the man whom Jesus pronounced to be justified - the one who said "God be merciful to me a sinner"! Don't you agree?" - MichaelA -<br /><br />I totally agree with you, Michael. about our need not to judge others too harshly - lest we be judged ourselves!<br /><br />The real problem , as I see it, in today's hissy-fit about sexuality, is that the nay-sayers to homosexuality seem to be saying: "It's OK for me to be a sinner, but not THEM!"<br /><br />We are all so far deep into the sin of hubris that it's a wonder God puts up with us. We cannot build our own righteousness upon the perceived sins of others - no matter how hard we try. There seems to be so many people ready to 'throw the first stone' that one can be blinded to one's own sins.<br /><br />"If you say you have no sin, you are a liar and there is no health in you"<br />- The words of Scripture!<br /><br />Note to host: (It appears this site is still being plagued by a joker, offering goodies that ought not to be eaten! in place of access!)Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com