tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post8022470708974765665..comments2024-03-29T22:00:02.999+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Timing is Everything: Luke's Advent and Christmas DatesPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-29533993221628466692015-12-15T10:55:08.959+13:002015-12-15T10:55:08.959+13:00“So, what is going on for Luke when he moves from ...“So, what is going on for Luke when he moves from the general vagueness of 1:5 to less general vagueness in 2:1-2 through to the specificity of 3:1-2?”<br /><br />Peter, Jesus himself appointed authoritative witnesses to his ministry from John the Baptist to the Resurrection-- the Twelve (Luke 1:2; Acts 2:21-22, and see Acts 10:36-42 as well as John 2:11, 15:27). Since in Luke-Acts, The Twelve are the guarantors of that delimited tradition, it is not surprising that St Luke’s account of that conserved tradition is firmer than his accounts of events fully eight decades before that he had investigated alone. If we agree with Richard Bauckham’s explanation of this then (pace C.F. Evans), a single ancient mode of historiography in which St Luke is reliant on eyewitnesses is able to fully account for this difference in the quality of supporting testimony.<br /><br />That said, one does wonder what motivated St Luke to extend his account backward past the standard beginning to the nativity. An anti-imperial theme may have pressed him both to end his account in Rome and to supply an account of the birth of the world’s true ruler. Or perhaps his birth and infancy narrative-- and St John’s prologue-- closed the gap between the institutional witness of the Twelve and the *early high christology* of Jesus-worship. If the evangelist sought to improve on now lost accounts of Jesus’s birth and early life, he nevertheless did not inhibit the growth of the genre (eg Protoevangelium of St James, circa 145).<br /><br />“So Luke's diligence may have hit a barrier of ignorance in respect of the critical year of the conception of both John the Baptist and Jesus.”<br /><br />The interesting thing to me is simply that, late in the C1, Luke sought out tradents of an infancy tradition, they existed, and they had something to say. That in itself tells against the view (eg Geza Vermes) that Jesus was seen in the C1 as a Deuteronomic *man of YHWH* rather than as the enthroned one of Daniel 7. And centuries later, St Luke’s account lends support to those more ontological theologies that do not neglect the Person in emphasising the Work of Jesus.<br /><br />Perhaps regnal years tax the memory more than other details. In which year of the Kennedy Administration was the Berlin Airlift? That the weaker memory of events three decades before better-remembered ones are also hazier in the gospel account of them is consistent with Bauckham’s reconstruction from Papias of its methodology.<br /><br />Ron says-- “For me, the Church’s liturgical year, in which we are immersed, has little to do with historical accuracy, but rather with memory and anamnesis.”<br /><br />He’s right about that, so long as the Christ of faith is somehow instantiated in the Jesus of history. But given a provisional acceptance of Bauckham’s approach to all this, your diligent reading influences even that. On one hand, it confirms that the richer detail about St Mary in say, the Protoevangelium of St James points away from the historiographical scruples of the gospel-writers to another genre. On the other hand, it also suggests that there was some early tradition of testimony about the birth of the messiah. Marian theology is grounded, not in reconstructed fact, but in an apostolic intuition about Christ.<br /><br />Back to serious writing I go...<br /><br />Bowman WaltonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-55918186966994165362015-12-13T18:47:28.210+13:002015-12-13T18:47:28.210+13:00OK! Between an ecumenically agreed date in January...OK! Between an ecumenically agreed date in January ...Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62129864561454769932015-12-13T17:33:52.301+13:002015-12-13T17:33:52.301+13:00I would ban mention of Christmas between 7 January...<i> I would ban mention of Christmas between 7 January</i><br /><br />A bit harsh on your old calendar Brethren - PeterAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-2527645489861483362015-12-13T17:15:23.599+13:002015-12-13T17:15:23.599+13:00If I were the Autocrat, Andrei, I would ban mentio...If I were the Autocrat, Andrei, I would ban mention of Christmas between 7 January and 1 December, with special reference to Santa, parades, presents, sales, etc!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-28723988285887635362015-12-13T16:44:10.042+13:002015-12-13T16:44:10.042+13:00You are wrong about when Advent begins Peter
It a...You are wrong about when Advent begins Peter<br /><br />It actually begins on November 1st when the plastic candy filled skulls and the barrels of witches hats and devils pitchforks which fill the store aisles throughout October are replaced overnight by Chocolate filled Simpsons Advent Calendars and electrically powered Santa Clauses who when plugged in wave their electric candles and utter "ho ho ho" through a tiny speaker in their abdomen <br /><br />And our ears are assaulted with ditties of jingly bells, sleigh rides and snow as we purchase out necessities<br /><br /><i>"T'is the season to be jolly"</i> Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-49107911544773117552015-12-13T12:30:32.936+13:002015-12-13T12:30:32.936+13:00I think Peter, that the exercise of faith - in the...I think Peter, that the exercise of faith - in the veracity of the existence of John the Baptist and Jesus - does not rest entirely on historical niceties. Trying desperately to pin-point dates, seasons and specific detail of events may be the stuff of historians, but not necessarily of theologians. I realise that physical scientists too (and maybe mathematicians) seem to need specificity.<br /><br />Anyway, although we currently exist in linear time, our Christian expectation is of the fact that we are already in 'eternal life'. I'm quite content with that. But then, I may be nearer the edge of this earthly life-span than your good self.<br /><br />For me, the Churches' Liturgical Year, in which we are immersed, has little to do with historical accuracy; but rather with celebration and anamnesis. "At all times and in all places".<br /><br />Marana tha. Come Lord Jesus! Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com