tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post8692549932102403601..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Global South 1 USA 0Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-58670760205220503762008-07-29T16:07:00.000+12:002008-07-29T16:07:00.000+12:00Dear LiturgyAt risk of over employing recent clich...Dear Liturgy<BR/>At risk of over employing recent cliches, I often think these days that how we frame issues helps with our understanding and working through of the issues.<BR/><BR/>Your alternative clear, crisp, coherent statement is a helpful framing.<BR/><BR/>Thank you!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-70875465377546513012008-07-29T14:54:00.000+12:002008-07-29T14:54:00.000+12:00You are correct that it is not the case that “the ...You are correct that it is not the case that “the remarriage of divorced persons is equivalent to entering into a blessed same sex partnership.” One is clearly condemned by the scriptures, including by our Lord, the other is a concept the scriptural context was unaware of and hence does not address.<BR/><BR/>Might the following be an even more clear, crisp, coherent statement than that of ECS:<BR/><BR/>Recognising we live in an imperfect, fallen world, in particular situations, in contexts often very different to the milieu the scriptures originally addressed and understood, the undergirding biblical values such as compassion, justice, forgiveness, love, commitment may be more significant than individual biblical verses, the interpretation of which is disputed, and lead to blessing the marriages of couples where one or both is divorced, blessing committed same-sex couples, and ordaining leaders in committed same-sex relationships.<BR/><BR/>Hot off the press: a more irenic approach than “Global South 1 USA 0” might be found here:<BR/>http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/0726/1217013245796.htmlliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62891537850514483312008-07-29T06:23:00.000+12:002008-07-29T06:23:00.000+12:00Dear LiturgyIt is coherent to have two standards a...Dear Liturgy<BR/>It is coherent to have two standards and to choose to publicly oppose the failure to conform to one and not to oppose failure to conform to the other.<BR/><BR/>The logic of such a choice could be 'prejudice' but it could also be 'evaluation'. In this case I presume that ECS evaluates the failure of North America on one standard to be of greater direct impact to ECS than the other.<BR/><BR/>Your critique of my use of the word 'coherent' works on the basis that the remarriage of divorced persons is equivalent to entering into a blessed same sex partnership. Not all Anglicans agree with that equivalence.<BR/><BR/>My 'clear crisp coherent' phrase would readily come from my keyboard were I to find such a statement being made in response from TEC ... if you have any influence with the PB then encourage her so that she may receive a similar accolade from me!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-84797697500633315342008-07-28T21:28:00.000+12:002008-07-28T21:28:00.000+12:00Hence, following your point, and the inner logic o...Hence, following your point, and the inner logic of the “clear, crisp, coherent” teaching of ECS, it would be fair to clarify their principles:<BR/><BR/>“We reject the practice of marriage of divorcees as contrary to biblical teaching and can accept no place for it within ECS. We strongly oppose developments within the Anglican Church in the USA, Canada, and elsewhere in ordaining and consecrating those married divorcees as priests and bishop and in approving a rite for the marrying of couples where one or both are divorced.”<BR/><BR/>Is it not of concern, then, that this “clear, crisp, coherent” teaching of ECS is only being publicised after it is applied to one homosexual – whereas previous to this there have been countless heterosexuals to which it would have applied? <BR/><BR/>Either ECS has been “clear, crisp, coherent” all along – but no one has bothered to report this when it applies to heterosexuals, or ECS has only formulated this position so clearly, crisply, and coherently in the context of one homosexual. Following your post, one would hope it was the former and manifest prejudice on the part of reporters, for if it were the latter it would undermine your contention that their position is coherent.liturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-5604833108990911192008-07-28T17:23:00.000+12:002008-07-28T17:23:00.000+12:00Not having talked to the Archbishop of Sudan recen...Not having talked to the Archbishop of Sudan recently, actually not at all, I am not in the best position to justify and/or apply his statement re marriage! Suffice to note (a) it is possible that certain remarried clergy might not be welcome to minister in Sudan (b) it is possible that a reason why Sudan has not engage in episcopal oversight in the USA and Canada is that it knows it could not sustain the standard mentioned in the statement.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36408785040601816252008-07-28T16:44:00.000+12:002008-07-28T16:44:00.000+12:00“We believe that human sexuality is God’s gift to ...“We believe that human sexuality is God’s gift to human beings which is rightly ordered only when expressed within the life-long commitment of marriage between one man and one woman. We require all those in the ministry of the Church to live according to this standard and cannot accept church leaders whose practice is contrary to this.”<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but I missed when the Episcopal Church of the Sudan applied this “clear, crisp, coherent” teaching to heterosexual clergy in the Anglican Communion who are divorced and remarried. Please remind us where we can read about that.liturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.com