tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post989720423047639569..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: The politics of Jesus (7 April 2014)Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-52459888483504720412014-04-09T21:22:52.373+12:002014-04-09T21:22:52.373+12:00I guess Peter, in the context of the liberality of...I guess Peter, in the context of the liberality of Jesus that I'm talking about, He would certainly want the sort of freedom for ALL that common justice demands in all societies.<br /><br />Luke, chapter 4, verse 18, is a pretty good description of what the Gospel promises to believers.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15901706737127914202014-04-09T18:40:14.151+12:002014-04-09T18:40:14.151+12:00"Liberal" makes little sense in describi..."Liberal" makes little sense in describing economics; Gustavo Gutierrez' "liberation" is the opposite of our "liberal" economics.<br /><br />"Economically liberal" the way we use it is arguably pro-capitalist propaganda, because it's so much more concerned with the liberty of individuals and corporations [proportional to how much money they have] and liberty to exploit than liberty of collectives, liberty from exploitation, liberty to unionise, liberty of countries to go against IMF-sanctioned economics, liberty of countries in Latin America to democratically elect socialist regimes, liberty of significant power/voice in your society and world instead of having your power/voice dwarfed by that of the mega-rich, etc.<br /><br />(That said, I do use "neo-liberal" myself, in lieu of a better term).Calebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619381698748105116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-64422198581011804802014-04-08T23:03:01.321+12:002014-04-08T23:03:01.321+12:00Perhaps, Ron, but what kind of liberal? On economi...Perhaps, Ron, but what kind of liberal? On economics as well as on social development?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-87180139537456380572014-04-08T21:47:00.403+12:002014-04-08T21:47:00.403+12:00All this talk of politics in the Church? Everyone ...All this talk of politics in the Church? Everyone who's read the Gospels would have discerned that Jesus himself was a liberal.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-45457167911799727392014-04-07T18:06:51.470+12:002014-04-07T18:06:51.470+12:00The fact that capitalism is so dominant and the Ma...The fact that capitalism is so dominant and the Marxist and social-democratic alternatives are pretty much dead (and in any case had their own problems) leads me to think that the most important thing for Christians engaging with secular politics at the moment is not choosing between socialist/liberal and capitalist/conservative policies (or, more accurately: socially liberal neo-liberal capitalism with a welfare state or less-socially-liberal, more-neo-liberal capitalism with a weaker welfare state). It's deciding how to respond to the dominant system, capitalism.<br /><br />The way I see it, we should respond to this empire the way the people of God have always been called to respond to the dominant empires surrounding them ... Don't be polluted by it, prophetically challenge its idolatrous presumptions and live creative alternatives to it while waiting for its fall.Calebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619381698748105116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-55872085302370810912014-04-07T11:25:57.960+12:002014-04-07T11:25:57.960+12:00Thanks Mark and Tim
My series is designed, Tim, we...Thanks Mark and Tim<br />My series is designed, Tim, were you a Kiwi voter, to assist you with holding your nose properly.<br />:)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-69759279903403398622014-04-07T11:15:34.372+12:002014-04-07T11:15:34.372+12:00I find it impossible as a Christian doing my best ...I find it impossible as a Christian doing my best to live by the politics of Jesus to commit myself as a member of any political party because they all have some policies that seem to me to fit well with the teaching of Jesus and others that don't. At the end of the day I have to hold my nose and vote (and I think it's important to vote), but I do so in the belief that it's the principalities and powers I'm dealing with here, not the kingdom of God.<br /><br />Tim C.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-5352720233473909732014-04-07T10:31:39.377+12:002014-04-07T10:31:39.377+12:00Hi Peter.
It's obviously not a busy morning fo...Hi Peter.<br />It's obviously not a busy morning for me with this being my second post on your blog for the day!!<br /><br />I've always said that, in theory at least, the core ideal of communism works - the equality of all. And in theory it seems to align with Christian principles and ideals as you've already pointed to in your blog. It's unfortunate that it doesn't work in practice and there are obvious examples of that throughout history. Consumerism, materialism and ultimately capitalism conspire against it working. People, including the vast majority of us within the church, are obsessed with themselves and their things and I believe that is the single biggest problem in society and the church.<br /><br />As a generalisation, society does not stand for social justice - we stand for ourselves - and because of that I'm convinced the politics in our society are all screwy. As I think about it I don't know if any Christian can vote for any current political party with the "politics of Jesus" in mind with a completely clear conscience. Maybe it's a "best of the worst lot" situation.<br /><br />As you point out Peter, if Christians desire to see society as classless (we are all the same before God whether Greek or Jew, slave or free, man or woman) then it needs to start within the church itself. The hour between 10and 11am on a Sunday each week is a start but its the other 167 hours in between that we as churches and as individuals need to take responsibility for. As Jesus said in John 13:34-35: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”<br /><br />There's my random ramblings for the day complete. As always I'm happy for my comments to be corrected, challenged and/or chastised.Marknoreply@blogger.com