tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post1843253531881233972..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: As we know, Primates play a role in evolutionPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-8054753586879794792010-04-10T11:04:10.190+12:002010-04-10T11:04:10.190+12:00Agreed, Tim!
My increasing sense as GSE4 approache...Agreed, Tim!<br />My increasing sense as GSE4 approaches is that the Orombi/Mouneer leadership style will not be to formally break from the Communion (not least because that would involve a break with the CofE) but to strengthen that which is working by way of common association; and I think that is GSE more than GAFCON.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27578259159962831672010-04-10T09:42:59.357+12:002010-04-10T09:42:59.357+12:00The (over)reactions to ++Henry Orombi's letter...The (over)reactions to ++Henry Orombi's letter just underscores the gap between (largely North America) and the Global South - the comments reflect the degree to which to so ready to comment on someone's character and spiritual outlook just don't know the man - probably never met him, and inclined to make sweeping comments about someone that demonstrates their own ignorance and bluster.<br /><br />Amongst the Global South primates ++Henry Orombi is probably the most gracious, humble and quietly spoken leaders. He is no Akinola. To accuse him of hubris is LOL nonsense!<br /><br />The forthrightness of this (apparently public) email from Orombi, together with ++Mouneer's letter, is very significant in the evolution of the AC (as Peter puts it). The key voices and leadership (and to be honest all this huffing and puffing about 'Anglicanism is a church of Bishops' is just a red herring - I quite agree with Peter's take on that) -the key voices and leadership within the AC are changing significantly. Respect for ++Rowan's leadership has taken a battering - and in the light of his non-response since Canon Glasspool's confirmation even more so - and the Communion is indeed evolving along new and unexplored focal points.<br /><br />The predictable western liberal responses to ++Orombi (and likewise ++Mouneer) are making a mistake in seriously underestimating their capacity to show leadership within the Communion - and my sense that such leadership reflected in these candid statements may well be about to move beyond talk to concrete and decisive action. They are much more likely to be initiatives at the grassroots and inter-Provincial level than at the Communion 'instruments' mode - that is the ABC's responsibility, and he has brought them into serious dysfunctionality.<br /><br />It is all too easy to dismiss the mode of leadership associated with the episcopal office as exercised in GS contexts - but I suspect that in part explains the respective states of decline in the west and massive growth in the 'South'. The GS Bishops are serious leaders in their own right, and capable of exercising such leadership across a range of cultures.<br /><br />Peter may recall hearing Bp Ben Kwashi speaking at the Oxford Consultation we both attended - he blew me away with his intelligence, spiritual courage and theological and cultural insight.Tim Harrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316071177447733796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-45547484671931077452010-04-10T08:27:10.785+12:002010-04-10T08:27:10.785+12:00Hi Howard / Kurt
That is an interesting take from...Hi Howard / Kurt<br /><br />That is an interesting take from Fr Jake!<br /><br />Lots can be said about bishops, Howard, but essentially I trust them to work well on faith and order questions because they (mostly) have been elected through a stringent process, (mostly) involving lay and clerical synodical houses, to do that work; and most know their dioceses better than any other person in that diocese.<br /><br />I have no difficulty with 'conciliar' including both small councils (vestries), larger ones (synods, General Synods), and global ones (Lambeth Conference, the Primates). The higher up the chain the more likely that bishops will be the ones doing the talking. At that level I trust them to represent us!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-68816962021653042882010-04-10T06:39:07.231+12:002010-04-10T06:39:07.231+12:00Father Jake’s blog has an interesting take on Orom...Father Jake’s blog has an interesting take on Orombi’s letter, a take which many American Episcopalians can agree with. Jake’s comments can be accessed here:<br /><br />http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/<br /><br />Kurt Hill<br />Brooklyn, NYKurthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10032216707367304535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-2846947381282304762010-04-09T22:43:35.551+12:002010-04-09T22:43:35.551+12:00"Anglicanism is a church of Bishops..." ..."Anglicanism is a church of Bishops..." Really? You agree with this wholeheartedly, Peter? Especially when he goes on to make it plain that he really means Primates like himself?<br /><br />This is one of the major stumbling blocks to finding unity in the Communion. Some provinces are essential synodical in their governance, and others essentially monarchical, and never the twain shall meet ... There is so little ground for confidence in the process by which the so-called Instruments come into being and operate.<br /><br />My confidence that God is guiding Anglicans is based on my experience of that guidance in my own home province. Beyond that is the great unknown, where there be dragons. I suspect that Anglicans in Uganda may feel much the same way about us. Leaving it to bishops, let alone primates, to bridge this gap seems rather scary. ACC might be a much better bet! Anything that moderates the importance of men in copes and mitres. <br /><br />Or was that just what you took him to mean by "at its best, conciliar in its governance"? I read him to mean a council of primates, but maybe the other orders of clergy and laity figure in his vision of perfection.<br /><br />Whatever we take ++Henry to mean, I don't think ++ Rowan shared his letter around because he enjoyed getting it!<br /><br />P.S. I have just read the first comment, making much the same point as mine, and your reply. I think your qualification of your initial statement puts you at a great distance from ++Henry!Howard Pilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822571103485207143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-69353853128231767562010-04-09T22:21:23.494+12:002010-04-09T22:21:23.494+12:00Hi Anonymous,
I know what you are getting at, but ...Hi Anonymous,<br />I know what you are getting at, but my experience of the Anglican church (which, of course, may be very different to yours) is that we are very much a church 'of bishops' though not, of course, exclusively of bishops. 'Of bishops' in the sense that a lot of leadership stems from the bishop's office; certain things cannot proceed in the life of the church without the bishop; and bishops, more than we often realise, make us a very different church from, say, the Baptist or Presbyterian churches.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15582066610214687362010-04-09T22:10:23.569+12:002010-04-09T22:10:23.569+12:00How can you possibly "agree wholeheartedly wi...How can you possibly "agree wholeheartedly with this sentence: "Anglicanism is a church of Bishops""?!<br /><br />Maybe it is a church WITH bishops, but certainly not a church OF bishops!<br /><br />I think the Archbishops' message and yours could be nuanced better!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com