tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post1899914049140335053..comments2024-03-29T22:00:02.999+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Hell is LosingPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-24766474559314059722011-08-30T11:48:32.944+12:002011-08-30T11:48:32.944+12:00In the light of your comment, Peter, on the theory...In the light of your comment, Peter, on the theory that God offers infinite opportunities for sinners to repent. That figures for me. One instance of that, in the Bible, comes from Our Lord's descent into Hell (the place of departed spirits) to show himself as God's Only-Begotten Son, Redeemer of all who look to him for forgiveness and redemption.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-49884111751478484882011-08-30T06:11:35.180+12:002011-08-30T06:11:35.180+12:00Hi Suem
The ultimate victory over Satan is both th...Hi Suem<br />The ultimate victory over Satan is both the restoration of fallen humanity and the destruction of Satan in the lake of fire.<br /><br />The question then - perhaps - is whether God's best and most complete effort at restoration is taking place before our eyes (i.e. in current space-time through the history of the world) or includes some future effort beyond the grave (e.g. some have theorised that God will provide an infinite set of opportunities to repent and believe)?<br /><br />On the whole, God's revelation in Scripture points us towards the former and not towards the latter.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-50649787040875683252011-08-30T01:56:34.005+12:002011-08-30T01:56:34.005+12:00What about the idea that IF God did restore all of...What about the idea that IF God did restore all of fallen humankind then that would be the ultimate victory over Satan?<br /><br />I'm not saying he WILL restore all of mankind, but IF he did, why would we have a problem with God winning an complete victory over Satan?Suemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128736092253293640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-24763211367348805072011-08-30T01:53:31.181+12:002011-08-30T01:53:31.181+12:00No, but presumably some late workers could have be...No, but presumably some late workers could have been working for other people all day? Also, in the parable of the man who threw a feast,he DOES go round searching the by-ways and highways for the disreputable, undesirable and uninvited, doesn't he? The focus of both parables is on the numbers God wants to include (even at the cost of seeming to lack integrity) not on the numbers he wants to exclude.<br />Generosity seems more important than "integrity"( as the world understands it.) That's all I am saying.<br /><br />Bosco, I don't know anything about the world cup. But your point seems to make it more relevant- what will happen to people who "didn't know"?Suemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128736092253293640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-79062286578414163382011-08-29T22:40:50.273+12:002011-08-29T22:40:50.273+12:00One interpretation of Hell, is that is consists of...One interpretation of Hell, is that is consists of an eternal experience of the absence of God. Perhaps it becomes its own reward.<br /><br />Hell has never been the subject of my sermons. Nor would I want it to be. I prefer something more encouraging.<br /><br />Experience of the 'dark night of the soul' might be as close as any Christian might want to approach the subject. The awful thing about that, is that is comes near to the experience of Jesus, when he took upon himself the sin of the world. His cry of: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me" describes what it must be like to 'feel the absence of God' - Hell, indeed!Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62498594454302343282011-08-29T15:43:24.402+12:002011-08-29T15:43:24.402+12:00In November a colleague and friend Hugh Bowron wil...In November a colleague and friend Hugh Bowron will be delivering some lectures/addresses on various topics. Among them will be one on Hans Urs von Balthasar, where Hugh will “assess the controversies surrounding the Theology of Holy Saturday, and conclude by considering whether Balthasar believed in universal salvation”, or <i>apokatastasis</i>.<br /><br />I shall indicate date and place later when available.Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-29371271191406524432011-08-29T13:02:02.271+12:002011-08-29T13:02:02.271+12:00I'll just note that the parable of the vineyar...I'll just note that the parable of the vineyard doesn't say that the owner went 'round after dusk and gave those who'd been working for other people a day's pay anyway.Andrew Wnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-25744478514671223942011-08-29T09:22:29.463+12:002011-08-29T09:22:29.463+12:00Greetings
It is very important in this discussion...Greetings<br /><br />It is very important in this discussion to remember that the words "Rugby World Cup" are not meant to be taken literally!<br /><br />There is not one cup - there are two (that we know of)!<br /><br />And "World" in the phrase does not refer to the world literally. Only about 10% of the world's nations are taking part - the majority of the planet doesn't even know it is happening. And certainly don't know the rules.<br /><br />I hope that helps ;-)<br /><br />ps. I have read Bell - he is saying nothing new. Must be a lot of Christian books under that counter!<br />pps. Zondervan Bell's usual publisher refused to publish it! But then that's owned by Murdoch - as is the NIV (yet another reason not to use the NIV!)<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-52510098399873748482011-08-29T07:03:45.448+12:002011-08-29T07:03:45.448+12:00I am not an expert on Rugby, but Andrew's anal...I am not an expert on Rugby, but Andrew's analogy seemed to give the opposite message to the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matt 20:1-16) In this parable the workers are accepted right until the end. Nothing wrong with that - but then they are paid EXACTLY the same wage, which in human terms is outrageous!<br /><br />You could argue that the integrity of the Vineyard owner would be fundamentally compromised if he admitted last minute "workers" at all, let alone on the same basis as the others? Now, in this parable there is an "eleventh hour"- which might suggest a cut off point, but the focus is not on the cut off point as there is nothing about being "too late", the focus is on God's outrageous generosity. It is generosity to the point of "unfairness" in human terms.<br /><br />I am not saying there is no hell- I actually believe there is. But if God did have some plan to restore all of fallen mankind, which would be the ultimate victory over Satan, I hope I would rejoice rather than gnash my teeth with righteous indignation.Suemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128736092253293640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-21253762440916541622011-08-28T20:56:21.715+12:002011-08-28T20:56:21.715+12:00Good analogy, Andrew!
Matthew: anything which sep...Good analogy, Andrew!<br /><br />Matthew: anything which separates us from God is more than sufficiently dramatic.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-42760376629863957422011-08-28T20:43:42.559+12:002011-08-28T20:43:42.559+12:00If the end of history is a restored heavens-and-ea...If the end of history is a restored heavens-and-earth, and those on God's side get to participate in that and others don't, is that insufficiently dramatic?Matthew Bartletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06348861545401582571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27441539713648928462011-08-28T20:33:27.276+12:002011-08-28T20:33:27.276+12:00Hi Peter,
I'm wondering if a closer parallel m...Hi Peter,<br />I'm wondering if a closer parallel might be as follows: <br />Certain teams (probably a majority) don't recognise the IRB as the legitimate body that administers World Rugby, and don't believe that the World Cup they are organising is real. They didn't prepare for it or play any qualifying matches, didn't apply formally or sign the necessary contracts, ran alternative competitions, and derided and persecuted those who did want to participate. Then, when the opening of the World Cup arrived, they realised the error of their ways and wanted to be accepted anyway. Wouldn't the integrity of the IRB be fundamentally compromised if they admitted such teams to the World Cup?<br />With apologies to readers from non-rugby playing nations who can't follow any of this at all!Andrew Reidnoreply@blogger.com