tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post2575132613273937319..comments2024-03-29T22:00:02.999+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Growing the churchPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-20061831521326464592012-04-09T19:54:11.750+12:002012-04-09T19:54:11.750+12:00" and one reason why the non-liturgical churc..." and one reason why the non-liturgical churches have little experience of the reality of the kenotic self-offering of Jesus - both before his death at the hands of the Scribes and Pharisees, and at his trial and crucifixion."<br /><br />Sorry, but having spent a great deal of time in non-liturgical churches of the type that Ron is hinting at (big band) this is simply untrue. I wonder how much time Ron has actually spent in the Churches he dismisses so readily?<br /><br />The Spirit that moves people in Evangelical/Pentecostal Churches does so in a wide range and variety of ways, including through dark nights of the soul, and Christ is presented and experienced in many ways, not just in triumphalism (though there is a place for that too!).<br /><br />In fact I would have to say that my experience has been that there is more understanding of Christ's kenotic suffering and of humble service in so-called "big band" churches than in the kinds of churches that promote Ron's sneering and self-satisfied judgmental attitude.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-74071739153211145792012-04-09T19:05:38.486+12:002012-04-09T19:05:38.486+12:00Regarding your recommendation of the translation o...Regarding your recommendation of the translation of the ABY to ABC, Peter, here is a satirical video well worth watching. The feral commentator is a local in the Church of England. Particularly funny is the reference to the ABY's conversazione with fellow delegates in the toilets at the meeting to choose a bishop: <br /><br /><br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3De-1OuNg7GVg%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&h=EAQF62sJ2AQFweqNHvBiNwsc6BaKEx5n7DTxpMfvh-cC1-QFather Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62935042591551972632012-04-09T18:19:52.275+12:002012-04-09T18:19:52.275+12:00Trying carefully, Peter, not to be doom-and-gloom ...Trying carefully, Peter, not to be doom-and-gloom and so end up with relational consequences, but continuing my point from your post that we, as church, can do the standard things well and that this is simple and requires some work; and staying with the baptism, marriage, funerals as entry-points point: <br /><br />IMO we should have had provincial Anglican websites for baptism/christening; marriage/weddings/relationships; funerals/grieving. I can assure you these would have been the first hits on a google-search here for any words that included “marriage”, “wedding”, “relationship”, “funeral” etc. These sites could have been kept fresh with volunteers producing interesting, helpful articles. There could even have been a fourth one for confirmation/youth-catechesis. <br /><br />This, of course, would have required the church to have a missional approach of actually going to where those who aren’t going to us actually are: cyberspace. <br /><br />To end on an upbeat note: with only one bishop, and maybe half-a-dozen clergy ministering and missioning into cyberspace – I am more surprised that connections continue than that they don’t. <br /><br />Christ is risen!<br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-9247651451950286842012-04-09T15:03:31.593+12:002012-04-09T15:03:31.593+12:00This is why the Liturgies of Holy week - before th...<i>This is why the Liturgies of Holy week - before the celebration of Easter Day - are so important, and one reason why the non-liturgical churches have little experience of the reality of the kenotic self-offering of Jesus - both before his death at the hands of the Scribes and Pharisees, and at his trial and crucifixion.</i><br /><br />This sounds incredibly smug and judgemental to me. I spend quite a bit of time with Mennonites, and their understanding and experience of humility and self-sacrifice after the pattern of Christ seems to me to be every bit as good as that of the liturgical Christians I know.Tim Chestertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13676859074652475474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-88629288554472941032012-04-09T13:45:44.957+12:002012-04-09T13:45:44.957+12:00There should be "relational consequences"...There should be "relational consequences", Michael, for all "doom-and-gloom" clerics!<br /><br />Your comment sums up brilliantly what I am trying to say.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-13956167633510061132012-04-09T13:42:13.407+12:002012-04-09T13:42:13.407+12:00Re the next ABC:
I do indeed suggest watching out...Re the next ABC:<br /><br />I do indeed suggest watching out for the Bishop of Durham as a "dark horse" in "the race".<br /><br />However if I were to place a bet today, I would place it on ++John Sentamu. Notwithstanding some recent health difficulties (mentioned in public), his stated age of 62, and something of a concerted ABY campaign (anyone byt York), the fact is that ++John would fit well with the multiculturalism of English society, with the well recognised feature of international Anglican life that the centre of it is now in Africa, would count as an 'evangelical' (whose "turn" it is to provide the next ABC), and would not be seen as a wishy-washy whimp by the conservative evangelicals of the C of E (and note carefully that I am not saying that ++John is a conservative evangelical, just that he would be more acceptable to the c.e.s than any other plausible candidate I can think of.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-326008309975875052012-04-09T13:32:19.429+12:002012-04-09T13:32:19.429+12:00Nice, Peter. My primary frustration in the current...Nice, Peter. My primary frustration in the current climate is that many colleagues are pronoucing doom and gloom, discovering that their church is not the apogee of universal spiritual enlightenment, and are turning either to Hip-Hip-Hippity-Hoo Jesus, incarnation of vacuous entertainment, or Ra-Krisna-Gaia-Medusa-Wot<i>eva</i> Jesus, incarnation or personally tailored and flavoured redemption, in order to reclaim an imagined centre stage. Worship, like faith, like theology, should rumour resurrection hope, doing it with integrity, proclaiming the remarkable and specific miracle that an unimportant peasant-rabbi in an unimportant province was the unique locus in which heaven kissed earth and death was transformed into life. <br /><br />Churches that do that well - and there are some - continue challenge both social and spiritual injustice and continue to connect authentically with the lives of those who seek meaning.MIchael Godfreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08003773432191964412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-91813743662055487932012-04-09T13:27:30.978+12:002012-04-09T13:27:30.978+12:00Hi Ron and Bosco
I didn't mean to understate ...Hi Ron and Bosco<br /><br />I didn't mean to understate the suffering and discipline of being a Christian!<br /><br />Nor did I intend understating the real and unrealised potential re funerals and weddings as entry points re new and renewed life in the church. Your suggestions, Bosco, are eminently practical!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-76531597908451385142012-04-09T12:45:20.799+12:002012-04-09T12:45:20.799+12:00Easter Season Greetings, Peter,
An important refl...Easter Season Greetings, Peter,<br /><br />An important reflection from your favoured candidate for ABC ;-)<br /><br />We have not stuck well to our knitting! <br /><br />Like running a website – basically each visitor to our worship should find what they are looking for and think they would like to return… That, as your post indicates, is quite simple – and hard work.<br /><br />I do not agree with you that funerals and weddings would, here, not be good entry points. IMO we have (unnecessarily and unreflectingly) handed these over to wedding celebrants and to the funeral director industries. We have systematically absented ourselves from helping people to know that the church has a message, resources, and expertise to enrich marriage and to have a (less expensive) wonderful wedding. And when was the last time you heard vicars/bishops teaching their community, verbally, on websites, and in handouts, that when someone is dying – involve the church; when someone has died – call the priest first? We are to blame that the norm has become – when someone dies: call the funeral director; s/he will involve a priest if that is what you want…<br /><br />Christ is Risen!<br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62949962461212748022012-04-09T12:30:26.675+12:002012-04-09T12:30:26.675+12:00"What is not to like about joining Jesus'..."What is not to like about joining Jesus' merry band of Christians, full of life and hope?" - Peter Carrell -<br /><br />Well, for one thing: that Christ's incarnation, reconciling ministry, death, resurrection and subsequent glorification was not all just one jolly "Easter Camp'-style big-band triumphalism.<br /><br />Christ's resurrection followed upon his dereliction & death - a reality and no fantasy! No pain no gain! And Christian triumphalism is often a short-cut for authentic religion.<br /><br />This is why the Liturgies of Holy week - before the celebration of Easter Day - are so important, and one reason why the non-liturgical churches have little experience of the reality of the kenotic self-offering of Jesus - both before his death at the hands of the Scribes and Pharisees, and at his trial and crucifixion.<br /><br />"Christ our Passover is SACRIFICED for us - Therefore, let us keep the Feast." With humility not triumph.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com