tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post3514165495670110403..comments2024-03-30T00:33:32.285+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Jesus and Scripture - Anglicans seeking common understandingPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-31378969337722662232009-02-18T17:05:00.000+13:002009-02-18T17:05:00.000+13:00Hi RhysYes, fair point re what does my statement m...Hi Rhys<BR/>Yes, fair point re what does my statement mean ... will give that some thought, and perhaps pots on it.<BR/>I don't want to be ungenerous to Elaine's proposal ... indeed I think there is fruitful exploration to be had of the word 'sacred' ... and I share with you the concern for something to say about Scripture which helps rather than hinders the governance of our church!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-23905353750198239672009-02-18T14:48:00.000+13:002009-02-18T14:48:00.000+13:00Peter, Perhaps a difficulty in your definition is ...Peter, Perhaps a difficulty in your definition is that it raises the question, authorized for what and to what extent. For example the authority of Leviticus would be actually different for the ancient Israel believer and for the Christian reader. Your exegesis of Jeremiah shows such a shift occurring; does ‘the book of truth authorized by Jesus Christ’ hint sufficiently at the dynamic quality you want. <BR/><BR/>We might ask ourselves, if we want generosity extended to our ranging statements should we extend it to Ellen Wainwright’s? Nevertheless, I think hers does raise the questions you suggest – and I wonder if there is any way from her approach to the government of the the life of Church that is our concern in the Windsor process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-58578007306530099262009-02-17T17:58:00.000+13:002009-02-17T17:58:00.000+13:00Hi RhysI am myself committed to testing each and e...Hi Rhys<BR/>I am myself committed to testing each and every point and proposition advanced about our faith, including Scripture, so am happy to consider presuppositions, and for my own to be critiqued.<BR/>In the case of Elaine Wainwright's statement, I agree that it is a 'bottom up' approach ... inevitably it begs the question whether 'sacred' then has any meaning; and other questions such as what occurs in 'encounter with God' and is the resulting 'scripture' fair reflection of God speaking to humanity or of humanity reflecting on that encounter (or both).Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-35168150823351888002009-02-17T17:46:00.000+13:002009-02-17T17:46:00.000+13:00Peter,I gave Ellen's ranging statement as an examp...Peter,<BR/>I gave Ellen's ranging statement as an example - not because i agree with. it But as in your own case, and mine, it commits to the public arena a presuppositional definition (in a way too many people are to discinclined to do). this at least forwards the discussion. <BR/>Her statement continues "they told their stories of encounter with God" - so it implies a pretty bottom up approach to the authority of scripture. Not surprsingly she later talks about the necessity of being willing to criticise certain aspects of the story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-14620578784169036592009-02-17T06:43:00.000+13:002009-02-17T06:43:00.000+13:00RhysWhat makes Scripture 'sacred' in Elaine Wainwr...Rhys<BR/>What makes Scripture 'sacred' in Elaine Wainwright's description?<BR/><BR/>Anonymous<BR/>I am endorsing nobody and no institution but seeking to understand Scripture. Typology has its place, though I was not consciously seeking to be typological - simply to make sense of the words of Jeremiah in the light of history and of Christ.<BR/>What is your solution to the fulfilment of the prophecy?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-78414376996532359842009-02-17T02:29:00.000+13:002009-02-17T02:29:00.000+13:00Peter writes: 'But if we approach Jeremiah 33:17 t...Peter writes: 'But if we approach Jeremiah 33:17 through the lens of the whole of Scripture, including the Synoptic Gospels, Paul’s writings, and the Epistle to the Hebrews, then we (i.e. the church collectively through its history) understand Jeremiah 33:17 to be truthful in this way...'<BR/><BR/>Ah, tell it not in Gath, but you have endorsed the Moore College approach to Scripture (typological fulfillment) as opposed to Dallas Theological College (dispensationalism), liberal Anglicanism (Marcionitism), and St John's Auckland ('Geri Myers? Was she one of the Spice Girls?') :)<BR/><BR/>Don't forget that the Risen Lord in Luke 24:27 gives the (Jewish) Scriptures a distinctly Christological focus. This is the lens we should look through.<BR/>John Wenham's 'Christ and the Bible' (orig. 1972, enlarged ed. 1991) is a helpful primer for lessons forgotten - or probably never learned - on the nature, authority and Christ-centered approach to interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-24643161609456842402009-02-16T17:07:00.000+13:002009-02-16T17:07:00.000+13:00Peter, you say, In perhaps over simplistic terms, ...Peter, you say, In perhaps over simplistic terms, Scripture is the book of truth authorised by Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/>I think we have to put forward this kind of 'ranging statement' as a preliminary. Ellen Wainwright at the last hui said "my sacred story/our sacred story - this is the way I think about the Bible".<BR/><BR/>I like the view that the Bible is the book of the household of Christ - the First Testament the household into which he was born, the New Testament, the household of his own; both, the household of the people of God. Not sure yet what I want to add about the GospelsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15546140444257026952009-02-12T11:00:00.000+13:002009-02-12T11:00:00.000+13:00I haven't read this yet (it hasn't been published ...I haven't read this yet (it hasn't been published yet!) but it could be an interesting new contribution grounded in Reformation belief and contemporary hermeneutics:<BR/><BR/>http://www.ivpbooks.com/1007/product/9781844742073.htm<BR/><BR/>Tim Ward's a clever guy, did his doctorate 'Word and supplement' (pub. OUP 2002 - see Google Scholar) under Kevin Vanhoozer, whose own book 'Is there a meaning in this text?' is a fine read too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com