tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post3899198511599228616..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Good Samaritan Supports Air Attacks on DaeshPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-32359017485299592742015-12-12T15:55:55.259+13:002015-12-12T15:55:55.259+13:00Finally, moving back finally to the Good Samaritan...Finally, moving back finally to the Good Samaritan. :-)<br /><br />It’s worth noting what he actually did and did not do. He had compassion on the man who had been beaten and robbed, took him to an Inn, paid for his care, and promised to make up any shortfall on his return journey.<br /><br />He did not take him home.<br /><br />What he did do was take him to a safe ‘third space’ - the Inn.<br /><br />If we reflect on this in the light of the Syrian refugee context, then ‘being a good neighbour’ to those who are victims does not mean taking them home to live with us. If we can take them to a safe ‘third space’ then that is fulfilling our obligation according to Jesus at least.<br /><br />We have every opportunity to do this through the services of the UN HCR and other aid agencies in the region.<br /><br />Not only does this meet the ‘Gold Standard’ of Good Samaritan neighbourly care, but we also meet the security test of not allowing those whose religion and culture is antithetical to liberal western democratic pluralism settle here, an action that overseas experience tells us causes a problem for everyone.Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-30780016527194615492015-12-11T08:21:49.786+13:002015-12-11T08:21:49.786+13:00Hi Peter
Your hopeful comparison between Catholic...Hi Peter<br /><br />Your hopeful comparison between Catholics and Protestants, in reference to the Sunni and Shia conflict doesn’t withstand scrutiny. The Bible carries the narrative of reconciliation from Genesis to Revelation. It was the core of Jesus ministry. While there was no guarantee the Protestants and Catholics would ‘get it’ – there was at least a Scriptural basis for hope.<br /><br />From what I can tell, there is no equivalent narrative in the Koran or the Hadith - just death for apostates. Have I missed something?<br /><br />It is now time to remove the rose tinted immigration glasses. <br /><br />There are parts of Britain and Europe today, that looks and functions more like Lahore than London. That is to say all of the joys of the Middle East including FGM, child brides, polygamy, misogynist attitudes, incidents of rape and endemic child abuse are present. Many cities like Malmo in Sweden and Marseille in France are characterized by violence, gun battles, and bombings. To all intents and purposes Muslim gangs control these cities.<br /><br />Would it be fair to say that the politicians and religious leaders who allowed this to happen had a ‘callous disregard’ for the security and the best interests of their citizens?<br /><br />I say again, it is simply a numbers game. The leaders of Malmo and Marseille may have acted in ignorance; we on the other hand are without excuse.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-47309170702750447472015-12-11T06:52:45.633+13:002015-12-11T06:52:45.633+13:00Hi Brendan
I do not have a callous disregard for t...Hi Brendan<br />I do not have a callous disregard for the security of New Zealanders. That charge could be levelled at all NZers, for example, who support our (very modest) contribution to the war in Iraq at present. If those of us who support that contribution had regard for "security" we would never send the troops off our shores! Further, regarding Muslim migration, everything I have said has been couched in terms of tension between the requirements of Christian love (to welcome, support refugees, to offer opportunity to contributory immigrants to settle in a land in which all of our descendants themselves were immigrants) and the obligation to provide security for NZers. I do not think that "callous disregard". Nor, conversely, do I think your arguments for security represent "callous disregard" for refugees and aspiring migrants.<br /><br />Yes, of course those tensions are here in Chch, and everywhere that Shia and Sunni gather. Analogously they compare to tensions here in the past between Catholics and Protestants. But those tensions can be overcome ... but, and another "of course", that has to come from within the wider Muslim community ... which relates to other points being made here on the blog: there is a desperate need for change within Islam driven by Muslims. (Some commentators think that is actually under way, hidden beneath the headlines about terrorism).<br /><br />I do not disagree with you that we are in the early stages of a long war. I note the Spanish precedent. I suspect we are wary of such mass expulsions because such events have also been associated with the Jews and, in the long run, in Europe such hatred of Jews led to the Holocaust. I do not think we (Westerners) wish to go there again.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-81250954300568148562015-12-10T22:54:59.804+13:002015-12-10T22:54:59.804+13:00Peter, dear Peter
We are in the early stages of a...Peter, dear Peter<br /><br />We are in the early stages of a very long war with Islamic jihad in the West, one that Israel has been fighting most recently now for more than sixty years and is still fighting today.<br /><br />But to answer your question, in 1614 after more than 700 years of conflict and Islamic dihimmitude, Spain’s Christian King Philip III decided he’d had a guts full of Muslim rapine, murder and jihad and expelled all remaining Muslims out of his country.<br /><br />There is historical precedent.<br /><br />There are Muslims whom I know and respect who have integrated and have chosen to live well in New Zealand – God bless them. There are others however who are less benevolently minded. The truth is, all Muslims are at risk from the jihadists, and frankly the onus is on them to sort out this problem with Islam, not on you or me.<br /><br />However if we start to experience the atrocities of Sydney, Paris, London, New York or California here in New Zealand on a recurring basis, then I suspect many New Zealanders will be going full ‘King Philip’, and that’s something we can easily avoid by closing the door to more Muslim immigrants now, something you are bizarrely, unprepared to do.<br /><br />The Muslim family we resettled here are Shia. I asked them somewhat naively how they were getting along with local Muslims? They were awkward about it, but eventually they acknowledged that it was fraught, because most Muslims in Christchurch were Sunni, and there were considerable ‘tensions’ between them.<br /><br />Oh yeah, those historical Middle Eastern ‘tensions’. Who’d have guessed, right here in Christchurch New Zealand?<br /><br />My Muslim employee had a conversation with my daughter who was working alongside him in our technology business. They started talking about faith, and he told her that he admired the Palestinian suicide bombers for their faith. He hoped he could in some way emulate them. Now I don’t believe that he was immediately about to strap on a suicide vest, but I am pointing out the influence the jihadist narrative has on all Muslims of all ages and all qualifications.<br /><br />It is part of their religious DNA.<br /><br />We naively think that refugees will come as a blank page, filled with gratitude at the opportunity of freedom, embrace our ‘values’ what ever they are, and start afresh. Thankfully many do, but the reality is that they bring with them a 1,000 years of historical hatreds and vindictiveness that are not left behind at immigration. <br /><br />You would do well to consider this, and to limit the bloodshed of innocents. I’m still deeply appalled at your callous disregard for the security of New Zealanders.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54818443166096363412015-12-10T22:23:06.624+13:002015-12-10T22:23:06.624+13:00"And that the San Bernardino jihadists Farook..."And that the San Bernardino jihadists Farook and his wife who by all reports were ‘living the American dream’ in December 2015 did not feel sufficient love from their fellow Americans that they felt entirely justified in slaughtering 14 and wounding more than 20?"<br /> - Brendan McNeil -<br /><br />We will never know what actions made towards/against the presumed 'Jihadists' in San Bernadino triggered their despicable act of terrorism. The fact is that they felt the need to do it! That, of course, is absolutely no excuse! We cannotknow their exact motivation<br /><br />However, short of all Jihadists being devoid of any sense of human compassion and decency and motivated by an evil religious fervour, we cannot know what might have happened in their lives that could evoke such hatred? That is the basic question all of us must ask - not just of the aminstream Muslim Community, but also of our own culture. We must remember that there has also been terrorism enacted in the opposite direction - from 'Christians' towards Muslims!<br /><br />After all, the Hebrew Bible is not totally devoid of horrendous acts of violence against God's enemies'. Is the Quran not modelled along the same lines, and therefore needing a modern hermeneutic, like the Bible - especially the Old Testament?<br /><br />What we Christians must never forget is the fact that the 3 strands of biblical religion are all descended from Abraham. We all need to get along together is we really believe in our common heritage.<br /><br />This is where, when Christianity livesx up to the precepts of its Founder, we may find it difficult to match the enemy's thirst for war. However, when it may be a matter of the extinction of good by evil; there are other principles at stake - not least, the survival of the species. Is that what God would want?Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66933961295500432032015-12-10T21:39:29.561+13:002015-12-10T21:39:29.561+13:00Hi Peter
Thanks for engaging on this. For the sak...Hi Peter<br /><br />Thanks for engaging on this. For the sake of argument:<br /><br />1) First of all, we were not discussing the export of terrorism from Indonesia, but the risk associated with Indonesian Muslims coming to New Zealand. That said, reputable news sources suggest 500 Indonesians have gone to fight with ISIS.<br /><br />http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/jakarta-grapples-with-indonesian-pro-isis-fighters<br /><br />Is that exporting terrorism in your opinion?<br /><br />Given the destruction of Synagogues, the burning of Churches and persecution of Christians at the direction of Imams, are these the people we want in New Zealand?<br /><br />2) Yes Western Governments are in a tricky position. Can we agree that the larger their domestic Muslim population, the more ‘tricky’ it is for them?<br /><br />So help me here, what are the ‘terrible things happening to Muslims’ at the hands of non-Muslims in the west? Did someone throw bacon at a Mosque; did someone abuse a Muslim on the subway or on the bus? How do these ‘crimes’ stack up against the 14 slaughtered at San Bernardino or the 130 innocent victims killed in Paris, many of the wounded who were still alive and had their stomachs ripped open by their attackers?<br /><br />3) You say: “I think - on balance - my/our Christian duty is to take a risk on 999 refugees knowing that the 1/1000th might turn out to be a terrorist rather then reject the 999 refugees in case the 1/1000th turns out to be a terrorist.”<br /><br />Let’s say I respect that opinion. Frankly I don’t - I think it’s the worst thing I have heard from a professing Christian and a New Zealander in recent times, but for the sake of argument, perhaps you could rehearse for me the words of comfort you will be offering to the first victim of Islamic Jihad in New Zealand?<br /><br />What will you be saying to them? I recognized the risk, I calculated it, and I decided that the future of these 999 Muslim refugees was more important than the life of your mum, your dad, your brother, your sister, your child, oh and by the way, do you know I’m a Christian?<br /><br />God help us.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-57173849948648388452015-12-10T20:58:30.603+13:002015-12-10T20:58:30.603+13:00Hi Brendan
A general note: I am not trying to mini...Hi Brendan<br />A general note: I am not trying to minimise real problems; but I am trying to keep things in perspective, and to avoid going "full Trump"!!<br />Briefly, re above:<br />1. There is plenty going on inside Indonesia re tensions etc but I still see a paucity of evidence of Indonesia "exporting" terrorism.<br />2. Governments are in a tricky position. They are well aware that to up the ante against Islam will lead to more violence against Muslims already within their countries and to likely radicalise further those open to radicalization. Some terrible things are happening to Muslims at the hands of non-Muslims. However, it would be helpful if government more robustly criticised Daesh and its supportive theologies and those promoting them.<br />3. Well put question! I think - on balance - my/our Christian duty is to take a risk on 999 refugees knowing that the 1/1000th might turn out to be a terrorist rather then reject the 999 refugees in case the 1/1000th turns out to be a terrorist. A question back to you: what risk do we run that a "full Trump" ban on Muslim migration would alienate more than 40 Muslims in our society (by your count there are 39,600 Muslims who might get really frightened by a full Trump ban. Fear is one of the mothers of violence!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-17469182323438758382015-12-10T20:06:16.540+13:002015-12-10T20:06:16.540+13:00Dear Father Ron
First of all, I begin with the as...Dear Father Ron<br /><br />First of all, I begin with the assumption that you are a person of integrity and good will, and that you sincerely believe what you have written.<br /><br />I ask you therefore to think about what you have said, which I paraphrase as follows: ‘if we love to the very best of our ability, we will not encourage the ire of our enemies.’<br /><br />Would you say therefore that Czechoslovakia’s problem in March 1939 was that they did not express enough love to Hitler and the Nazi party?<br /><br />And, that Poland’s problem in September 1939 was that they did not express enough love to Hitler and the Nazi party?<br /><br />And that Denmark and Norway’s problem in April/May 1940 was that they did not express enough love to Hitler and the Nazi party?<br /><br />And that the San Bernardino jihadists Farook and his wife who by all reports were ‘living the American dream’ in December 2015 did not feel sufficient love from their fellow Americans that they felt entirely justified in slaughtering 14 and wounding more than 20?<br /><br />The most deadly jihadist attack on American soil since 9/11.<br /><br />No doubt one of us is ‘living in fantasy land’ as you so delicately put it, and I do accept there are no guarantees in life, but you can rest assured that I’m prepared to do a damn site more to protect my children and grandchildren than to tip toe around the religious sensibilities of the jihadists who hate us both at home and abroad.<br /><br />We are facing the greatest existential threat of our generation, and I agree that prayer, love and mercy play an important part in our response to our Muslim neighbours. We are after all called to love our neighbour as ourselves.<br /><br />But that doesn’t mean we should abandon our responsibility as watchmen and alert our neighbours, both Muslim and otherwise to the jihadist ideology that threatens to consume a 1,000 years of western civilisation and take us back to the days of Mohammad, best exampled by ISIS today.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15836572150531712522015-12-10T18:01:15.916+13:002015-12-10T18:01:15.916+13:00"Practically how does any society protect the..."Practically how does any society protect themselves from such a risk?" - Brendan McNeil -<br /><br />Brendan, there are NO GUARANTEES of freedom in this life. If you think so, you are living in Fantasy Land - the land of Never-Never.<br /><br />For Christians, however, what we do have is Faith, Hope and Love, and if we exercise these - to the very best of our ability - it may be that we will not encourage the ire of enemies. Faith, Hope and Love, these three, and the greatest is LOVE.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-64714990196770248442015-12-10T16:32:48.319+13:002015-12-10T16:32:48.319+13:00Part 3/3
3. While I can see some merit in an argu...Part 3/3<br /><br />3. While I can see some merit in an argument which proposed that, for the time being, citizens of countries A, B, and C were denied visas etc, in the present situation, at least from Syria and Iraq, there are genuine refugees looking for a safe haven of a country in which to settle and to bring up their families without fear. Are we to suspend our refugee policy because we might have a future problem with a few terrorists? (We would not suspend acceptance of Chinese migrants because we might have a problem with Triad gangsters settling here ...)<br /><br />REPLY:<br /><br />First of all, its not a question of ‘we might have a problem with a few terrorists’ we most definitely will have a problem and if John Key is to be believed, we already have a problem now. The point I have been labouring is that it is simply a numbers game.<br /><br />We have a ‘minor’ problem now because we have around 1% Muslim population. Sydney has a greater problem because they have 2-4% Muslim population, Paris and France has a greater problem again because they have 8% - 10% Muslim population.<br /><br />As to the Syrian Muslim refugee question, allow me to say this. First who do you call in Syria today in order to check refugee Ahmed Mohammad? Do you honestly believe there is some database in the Middle East that our immigration services or the UN HCR can log into in order to validate or exclude someone’s application?<br /><br />If you or anyone else reading this post believes that, please contact me directly as I have several commercial transactions that would be of interest to you.<br /><br />How do you think the 40 Muslims presently on the SIS terrorist watch list arrived here if not by passing the Immigration Services scrutiny?<br /><br />Once Muslim immigrants arrive here how do we know they will not be subsequently radicalized while living in New Zealand?<br /><br />How do we know that their children will not be radicalized? The London 7/7 bombers were second generation Muslims. San Bernardino’s Farook was born in the USA.<br /><br />I have calculated that it is approximately 1 in 1,000 Muslims who would do us harm. I have taken that number from our SIS who says there are 40+ Muslims on their terrorist watch list, and we have about 40,000+ Muslims living in New Zealand.<br /><br />For every 1,000 additional Muslims we bring in, we add one more to Rebecca Kitteradge’s front bench.<br /><br />They admit they cannot watch them all, and as recently as today John Key acknowledged that we are unlikely to prevent a successful (Muslim) terrorist attack in NZ. If San Bernardino is any guide, it’s the ones who are not on the watch list that present the biggest problem.<br /><br />Knowing this, let me ask you a question Peter, is it reasonable therefore to increase our Muslim population given that we are able to quantify the risk in this way?<br /><br />If you answer ‘yes’ to that question, will you then feel any personal responsibility when we experience our first ‘death by jihad’ on NZ soil? When it happens, will you be posting about your grief, or your anger or possibly your foolishness?<br /><br />New Zealand is unique in the western world at not yet having experienced jihadist slaughter on our soil. We still have the opportunity to prevent this by restricting Muslim immigration to zero. If people find this more offensive than innocent Kiwi’s being killed by local jihadists, then I’m confident as to which of us has the problem.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-22678869655856476352015-12-10T16:32:06.701+13:002015-12-10T16:32:06.701+13:00Part 2/3
2. Consistent with your argument would b...Part 2/3<br /><br />2. Consistent with your argument would be an Australian ban on Kiwis moving to Australia since (especially recently, as you will be aware) it has been widely publicised that a group of Kiwis have embarked on violent crime in Oz. How would Oz tell violent from non-violent Kiwis apart? Simpler to ban the lot of us!<br /><br />REPLY:<br /><br />Peter, there is general criminal offending that takes place across all sections of society, all races, all ethnicities and people of all religious persuasions. We all understand that.<br /><br />However, today there is only one demographic that believes they are under obligation by God to kill infidels, apostates, heretics and homosexuals. <br /><br />Only one demographic whose sacred texts support this activity today.<br /><br />Only one demographic whose prophet did these very things himself by way of example for his followers to emulate.<br /><br />While we must all accept some risk from general criminal activity when living in liberal western pluralistic societies, is death by Islamic jihad an acceptable risk? Should we just shrug our shoulders, and say ‘oh well, at least it wasn’t me or my family’ and move on?<br /><br />Or, given that it is such a clearly defined demographic, should we at the very least be putting some pressure on these communities to either reform Islam, or expose those living amongst them who do represent a clear and present danger to us all – assuming they know who they are?<br /><br />Or should we place a moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries, and those who profess the Muslim faith? At least until they learn to play nicely with us?<br /><br />I think as a society we are slowly moving beyond ‘doing nothing’ as a strategy against jihad, so let’s hear the options? <br /><br />My second concern is that if those who are elected to protect us ‘do nothing’ domestically other than run defense for Islam and its followers, sooner or later there will be bloody retribution on innocent Muslims following a jihadist attack, and we are obligated to do all we can to prevent that.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-55103390739696238262015-12-10T16:31:15.201+13:002015-12-10T16:31:15.201+13:00Part 1/3
Hi Peter
Thank you for the moderate res...Part 1/3<br /><br />Hi Peter<br /><br />Thank you for the moderate response. ☺<br /><br />I’d like to address each of your questions as best I can in-line below….<br /><br />1. Andrei's point is well made: no one is worried about Indonesians migrating here (or there).<br /><br />REPLY:<br /><br />The obvious question is why not? <br /><br />There are currently 200 Indonesians fighting for ISIS according to that bastion of right wing conservatism, the Guardian newspaper.<br /><br />http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/indonesian-jihadis-could-be-galvanised-return-isis-fighters-analyst<br /><br />Have we forgotten the 200 killed by Indonesian terrorists in the Bali bombings?<br /><br />Our Government advises against travel in Indonesia stating a ‘high risk’ of terrorism there.<br /><br />https://www.safetravel.govt.nz/indonesia<br /><br />Two months ago, Indonesia’s last synagogue was ‘torn down’<br /><br />http://jakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/news/javas-last-synagogue-torn-down/<br /><br />http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Report-Indonesias-last-synagogue-destroyed-327907<br /><br />ChristianityToday.com is one of many organizations reporting persecution of Christians in Indonesia, the burning of churches etc.<br /><br />http://www.christiantoday.com/article/muslim.militants.burning.of.churches.persecution.of.christians.in.indonesia.spurred.by.imams.jihad.order/70601.htm<br /><br />So, why should any rational person have cause for concern about those gentle Indonesian Muslims migrating to New Zealand?<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-86012865538585764742015-12-10T15:53:42.623+13:002015-12-10T15:53:42.623+13:00I have not seen it Brendan. I have not seen it Brendan. Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-23579204832128856722015-12-10T15:49:38.547+13:002015-12-10T15:49:38.547+13:00Hi Peter
Did you get my lengthy reply to your thr...Hi Peter<br /><br />Did you get my lengthy reply to your three questions:<br /><br />1. Andrei's point is well made: no one is worried about Indonesians migrating here (or there).<br />2. Consistent with your argument would be an Australian ban on Kiwis moving to Australia since (especially recently, as you will be aware) it has been widely publicised that a group of Kiwis have embarked on violent crime in Oz. How would Oz tell violent from non-violent Kiwis apart? Simpler to ban the lot of us!<br />3. While I can see some merit in an argument which proposed that, for the time being, citizens of countries A, B, and C were denied visas etc, in the present situation, at least from Syria and Iraq, there are genuine refugees looking for a safe haven of a country in which to settle and to bring up their families without fear. Are we to suspend our refugee policy because we might have a future problem with a few terrorists? (We would not suspend acceptance of Chinese migrants because we might have a problem with Triad gangsters settling here ...)<br /><br />I'm happy at one level if you chose not to publish it - it is your blog after all, but I'm just a little concerned that you have challenged me to respond, said that "Andrei's point is well made:" which is of course nonsense as I clearly demonstrated, and I am seemingly left without a right of reply?<br /><br />Again, it's your blog, and also I accept you may not have received my post, which is a possibility. :-)<br /><br />Blessings<br />BrendanBrendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-26593127587963589882015-12-09T17:12:30.936+13:002015-12-09T17:12:30.936+13:00Actually, Carl, that was my guess. But truth can b...Actually, Carl, that was my guess. But truth can be stranger than fiction, and for all the reasons given or implied, the thought of a reformed, ex-military engineer cheering on the Giants or the Redskins was too hilarious to omit. <br /><br />Bowman WaltonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66389131577947446282015-12-09T15:36:36.466+13:002015-12-09T15:36:36.466+13:00Bowman
Isn't it obvious? All well-taught and...Bowman<br /><br />Isn't it obvious? <b>All</b> well-taught and doctrinally sound individuals are Dallas Cowboys fans. It's practically evidence of election. ;-)carl jacobshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05195615264891904953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-87997303624716555362015-12-09T15:10:13.486+13:002015-12-09T15:10:13.486+13:00Hi Brendan
I appreciate very much the response you...Hi Brendan<br />I appreciate very much the response you have given, not least because you are clearly a man of compassionate action and practical concern, including for our nation.<br /><br />Nevertheless I continue to be concerned about a blanket ban approach.<br />1. Andrei's point is well made: no one is worried about Indonesians migrating here (or there).<br />2. Consistent with your argument would be an Australian ban on Kiwis moving to Australia since (especially recently, as you will be aware) it has been widely publicised that a group of Kiwis have embarked on violent crime in Oz. How would Oz tell violent from non-violent Kiwis apart? Simpler to ban the lot of us!<br />3. While I can see some merit in an argument which proposed that, for the time being, citizens of countries A, B, and C were denied visas etc, in the present situation, at least from Syria and Iraq, there are genuine refugees looking for a safe haven of a country in which to settle and to bring up their families without fear. Are we to suspend our refugee policy because we might have a future problem with a few terrorists? (We would not suspend acceptance of Chinese migrants because we might have a problem with Triad gangsters settling here ...)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-58506122690705819712015-12-09T14:43:35.104+13:002015-12-09T14:43:35.104+13:00Hi Peter
For the record, my family has resettled ...Hi Peter<br /><br />For the record, my family has resettled Muslim refugees in Christchurch, we have broken bread in their home, and they have with us in ours. I have employed Muslims in my business. I have no animosity towards any person of faith or no faith.<br /><br />However from a practical perspective, the problem we now face with Muslim immigration in the west, is that we cannot tell who is ‘safe’ and who is not. The San Bernardino jihadists both had well paid middle class jobs, a young baby and were said by workmates to be ‘living the American dream’.<br /><br /> http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-syed-farook-had-traveled-to-saudi-arabia-married-appeared-to-live-american-dream-co-workers-say-20151202-story.html<br /><br />These were not disenfranchised Muslims, ostracized for their beliefs, marginalized by white Americans and living on the edge of society. By all reports they were ‘well integrated’ and showed no outward sign of radicalisation – until they did.<br /><br />Practically how does any society protect themselves from such a risk?<br /><br />Trump’s solution may jar with our liberal sensibilities, but what is the alternative? We have been ‘reaching out’ to the Muslim community since 9/11 and has the situation improved or worsened?<br /><br />I’m on record here as saying we should get all ‘crusader’ armies out of the Middle East - Killing Muslims in order to save Muslims has ceased to make any sense to me. On the other hand you want to send in the troops to defeat ISIS - well that’s fine, but may I gently ask who is the greatest hawk, you or Trump? <br /><br />At least there is no widespread bloodshed and slaughter associated with his policy, and when it comes to protecting us at home, his policy is more likely to be effective.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-67430945238223843692015-12-09T12:35:46.886+13:002015-12-09T12:35:46.886+13:00@Andrei
You wrote:
“The worst acts of random vio...@Andrei<br /><br />You wrote:<br /><br />“The worst acts of random violence in the West against innocent people have not been committed by Muslims - examples Port Arthur Massacre, Aramoana, Dunblane, Hoddle Street in Melbourne, McDonalds in San Diego the list goes on and on. “<br /><br />Well the list does go ‘on and on’ and for some reason you have forgotten the 3,000 killed by Muslims who flew planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon at 9/11, or were they not ‘true Muslims’ and therefore cannot be counted?<br /><br />None of us has set out to demonize a group of people for their faith – we didn’t need to as Muslims have done a good job of this all by themselves. <br /><br />I’ll be the first person to rejoice when the jihad stops, in the mean time we need to discuss practical and humane ways to mitigate the risk for civilian populations living in the west, and all options need to be considered.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-10403033965598396902015-12-09T11:53:43.119+13:002015-12-09T11:53:43.119+13:00Carl
Astonishing to think that I know your views ...Carl<br /><br />Astonishing to think that I know your views on many things theological and Anglican but not your team. <br /><br />Giants, Redskins, or Cowboys?<br /><br />The Eagles sometimes play well-- especially lately, alas-- but their fans need help.<br /><br />Patriots, Crimson. <br /><br />Bowman WaltonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-5463402102835267742015-12-09T11:29:40.313+13:002015-12-09T11:29:40.313+13:00Anonymous was myself Andrei
A whoops with Blo...Anonymous was myself Andrei <br /><br />A whoops with BloogerAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66358278799649462842015-12-09T11:24:15.102+13:002015-12-09T11:24:15.102+13:00Hi Anonymous
Please give your name!Hi Anonymous<br />Please give your name!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-57433750434920632342015-12-09T11:16:46.086+13:002015-12-09T11:16:46.086+13:00we should should suspend judgement and accept the ...<i> we should should suspend judgement and accept the acts of violent jihad from our Muslim immigrant population</i> <br /><br />Straw man Brendan McNeill<br /><br />The acts of violence committed by young Muslim men are totally unacceptable<br /><br />They are atrocities and the problems of radicalized young men in the West needs to be addressed - it is a major issue<br /><br />But it should not be conflated with the wars being conducted against the Syrian, Iraqi and Yemeni peoples - those responsible and encouraging radicalization of Western youth do not come from those places. And escalating these conflicts will not solve this issue ( and this post is about escalating the conflict in Syria in a way that will make its peaceful resolution much more difficult) <br /><br />The worst acts of random violence in the West against innocent people have not been committed by Muslims - examples Port Arthur Massacre, Aramoana, Dunblane, Hoddle Street in Melbourne, McDonalds in San Diego the list goes on and on. <br /><br />If you look at what has been published about the leaders of the Paris atrocity you see an extensive criminal history and not a huge involvement in the Muslim religion in fact. <br /><br />There is a crisis in the West as the native populations, which have failed to reproduce in sufficient numbers for forty years is replaced by a more fecund immigrant population with an entirely different cultural and religious heritage. <br /><br />How this is managed and plays out remains to be seenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-12455485309955195292015-12-09T09:38:05.973+13:002015-12-09T09:38:05.973+13:00ISIS foot soldiers in Syria and Iraq (and "m...ISIS foot soldiers in Syria and Iraq (and <i>"moderate rebels"</i>) are behaving exactly the same way German Soldiers (and not only Germans btw but "the good guys:" as well - lets not look at logs in eyes) behaved during WW2.<br /><br />Do you have any idea of the horrors inflicted on the people of Belarus 73 tears ago? No of course not<br /><br />ISIS foot soldiers are for the most part mercenaries Brendan McNeil - they fight for money and women.<br /><br />There is nothing new here. all of these horrors are as old as humanity itself and is part of our nature.<br /><br />We as civilized human beings need to support the structures that contain and limit these horrors<br /><br />Demonizing a group of people for the Faith, race - whatever is the road to perdition<br /><br />It is a trick used by demagogues to rouse people into committing atrocities or at least turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed against the target group Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-47946099582233642362015-12-09T09:36:39.041+13:002015-12-09T09:36:39.041+13:00"there is nothing ISIS are doing that Mohamma..."there is nothing ISIS are doing that Mohammad didn’t do – wage war, slaughter captives, take sex slaves etc. Yes, it is perverted to the western mind, but it is still Islam." - Brandan Mc.Neil - <br /><br />There is bibilical evidence of other nations/races that have waged war in the very same manner - at a time when there were no Muslims!! So we must not generalise along the path of our own prejudices. That was the custom of the times. Sadly, the lunatic fringe of feundamentalist religion is ever prone to wipe out the opposition.<br /><br />President Obama is now taking heed of a prophetic element within Daesh that looks forward to a ground-war confrontation with Western armies. It seems that Armageddon canmnot come to soon for the faith-filled radicals. Perhaps Mr Trumop is not in on the loop?Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com