tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post4815591274739697945..comments2024-03-29T17:55:30.203+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Marry or perish: the death knell of Western societyPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-21996130645039950822012-11-19T06:29:02.381+13:002012-11-19T06:29:02.381+13:00Most fail to see what is clear. And that is postmo...Most fail to see what is clear. And that is postmodernism is a Satanic fantasy era. Largely pushed against whites, or broader Western civilization in a pre-Counterculture sense. This dismantling of Protestantism into nihilstic pseudo-humanism must be combatted. Not solely be Nigerian defenders of the Faith; but by reactionary militants of the Western hemisphere and the like. While its true the anti-Western criticism will be seen as nonsense, when the Nigerians and others assert the faith. Still, we need to understand that this is not to be tolerated. So start calling yourself bigots. And assert some buried history against Catholic and Orthodox for the true Church: Ole Protestantism.Mr. Mcgranorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12851136550476241757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-22149818469743854382012-11-18T18:18:53.205+13:002012-11-18T18:18:53.205+13:00"I'm a bit interested to see your referen..."I'm a bit interested to see your reference to 'orthodox Christians'. Is there any other sort?"<br /><br />Yes, the heterodox and the heretical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-19231340343011382892012-11-18T14:54:10.757+13:002012-11-18T14:54:10.757+13:00I have not made any calculated insults. My last co...I have not made any calculated insults. My last comment was simply an acknowlegment of Michael's perplexity as to your own calculated insults, a perplexity I share.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-85011371991540161682012-11-17T12:31:04.011+13:002012-11-17T12:31:04.011+13:00Slightly redacted comment from Fr Ron Smith:
&quo...Slightly redacted comment from Fr Ron Smith:<br /><br />"Just a wee not to [Shawn]. I once said I would decline to answer your calculated insults on this site. I now announce my intention to renew that declaration. Goodbye Shawn!"Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-38587604752445473052012-11-17T12:17:41.159+13:002012-11-17T12:17:41.159+13:00Gary, if my remark was a bit too close to the bone...Gary, if my remark was a bit too close to the bone for you to endure. I apologise for your hurt feelings.<br /><br />In answer to your last question: No I have not visited any of the territories you have mentioned. Can I presume that you have? From your own remarks it would seem that you have lots of experience in the countries you mention. <br /><br />I do however, have 2 English priest brothers-in-law who have personal experience as missionaries in Tanzania, Zululand, and South Africa, and we do have some lively conversations about this. <br /><br />I'm a bit interested to see your reference to 'orthodox Christians'. Is there any other sort?Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.com.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-61655911932297418592012-11-17T09:56:16.239+13:002012-11-17T09:56:16.239+13:00" but I am not sure what he seeks to do by ma..." but I am not sure what he seeks to do by making confused ad hominem trolling comments here about people he doesn't know. Is it just to annoy orthodox Christians? Is that really how an ordained minister should spend his time? I am genuinely perplexed by this."<br /><br />You and me both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-60860055298803118132012-11-17T09:04:25.903+13:002012-11-17T09:04:25.903+13:00Your comment, MichaelA, November 16, 2012 10:20 AM...Your comment, MichaelA, November 16, 2012 10:20 AM, at least in part to me, is much appreciated. Thanks. If there was any rush in my reading of what you wrote, please understand my being very busy. There was and is certainly no attempt at being mischievous. My points came out of the reality here in NZ of committed same sex couples who had to keep their relationship secret from the law; were excluded from the funeral of their partner; from decisions, inheritance, etc etc. It also comes from much travel. I also apologise if the tone of my points added to heat rather than light. Once again, thanks, and<br /><br />blessings<br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-76248030100250774532012-11-17T06:28:04.302+13:002012-11-17T06:28:04.302+13:00I wonder if "Father" Smith has ever been...I wonder if "Father" Smith has ever been to West Africa or to Iran or Pakistan. If he had, he would understand what I am talking about. I appreciate that very few people seem to read his blog (to judge by the absence of comments), but I am not sure what he seeks to do by making confused ad hominem trolling comments here about people he doesn't know. Is it just to annoy orthodox Christians? Is that really how an ordained minister should spend his time? I am genuinely perplexed by this.<br /><br />GaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-25799317166722044882012-11-16T21:57:40.436+13:002012-11-16T21:57:40.436+13:00Lightly moderated comment from Ron Smith:
"&...Lightly moderated comment from Ron Smith:<br /><br />""No. Because I am not convinced that our current laws are in fact right."<br /><br />Ah wel1 That's that, then! ...<br />"Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-78941852499062692412012-11-16T17:56:23.314+13:002012-11-16T17:56:23.314+13:00Hi Peter,
" I would prefer commenters here t...Hi Peter,<br /><br />" I would prefer commenters here to think carefully about making statements that any way shape or form give credence to views that it is okay through law to enshrine an unsafe environment for gay people in any country."<br /><br />The problem here is who defines what is or is not "unsafe"?<br /><br />Gay rights groups would claim that anything other than full and total acceptance of any demand made by them, and nothing less than the full capitulation of every institution, including the Church, means that society is "unsafe".<br /><br />" I am sure we appreciate the (relative) safety and protection afforded all people in NZ and Oz through our laws, bill of rights and so forth. Should we not be keen to see similar respect for human dignity throughout the world?"<br /><br />No. Because I am not convinced that our current laws are in fact right. Human dignity can only be based on a Biblical worldview, and such a worldview is interested in far more than our secular humanist notions of "rights".<br /><br />I DO agree that people who struggle with homosexual compulsions should not be executed for them. That would be wrong, obviously.<br /><br />But between that extreme and the situation in the West in which homosexuals wield disproportionate political power and are using that power to persecute Christians, there are many more sensible options.<br /><br />Some restrictions with regards to homosexuality, such as marriage and adoption, are legitimate, as are laws to protect the God-given right of Christians to proclaim and practice the Faith.<br /><br />Our society has become woefully unbalanced on this issue, and on the issue of rights in general.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-87006269407819267522012-11-16T17:48:09.409+13:002012-11-16T17:48:09.409+13:00I find Gary's exposition here to be quite fasc...I find Gary's exposition here to be quite fascinating. Has he ever thought of putting his exaggerated fantasies into a more commercial form. It's not exactly Booker Prize stuff, but maybe he'd find a small publisher- say, in Nigeria.<br /><br />I'm sure he'd have an audience - maybe even here, but not from me. I'm not for bogey-man fiction. I'm a strictly non-fiction person, myself.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.com.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-78917008556860822092012-11-16T12:31:44.885+13:002012-11-16T12:31:44.885+13:00African countries can be bullied by the West, with...African countries can be bullied by the West, with the threat to cut off aid, as the UK has done to Malawi, and the US may do to Uganda. <br />Muslim countries which punish and even execute homosexuals (like Pakistan and Iran, Egypt as well) will not be targeted by the West, because (a) they are too strong to be bullied; (b) the left needs Muslim votes in the West; (c) the West is terrified of more Al Qaeda-type attacks, and supporting homosexuals in those countries will only support the Al Qaeda narrative about the anti-Muslim West.<br />So, much easier to push around the weak Africans.<br /><br />GaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-66664726743632876162012-11-16T10:20:02.723+13:002012-11-16T10:20:02.723+13:00Peter, my apologies to you, Bosco and Father Ron f...Peter, my apologies to you, Bosco and Father Ron for the nit-pickiness of my last two posts: the very thing I object to in others and I am doing it in spades! <br /><br />I appreciate that Bosco was talking about a very real issue, but I was so fixated on my own point that I wasn't even seeing it. Best regards all. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-3687547506904397582012-11-16T09:24:22.263+13:002012-11-16T09:24:22.263+13:00As a postscript to MichaelA's posts on this th...As a postscript to MichaelA's posts on this thread, perhaps he could read my latest article here, which unveils Uganda's latest push to criminalise homosexuals (not necessarily just their activity) in Uganda - no doubt aided and abetted by The Church! :-<br /><br />Uganda revives its intention to further criminalise Gays<br />Posted on November 15, 2012<br />Anti-Gay Bill: Speaker Kadaga Promises to Speed Up Law in Uganda Author: NTV Uganda Publisher: NTV Uganda Publication Date: 12 Nov.12 <br /><br />Judicial Affairs, Governance The speaker of parliament – Rebecca Kadaga has called upon Members of Parliament … Continue reading →<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SIfbOA7XyxU<br />Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.com.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-60270219216103671372012-11-16T08:04:43.619+13:002012-11-16T08:04:43.619+13:00Hi MichaelA
I appreciate your responding with cla...Hi MichaelA<br /><br />I appreciate your responding with clarification.<br /><br />I think it is this paragraph in an earlier comment by you which has, let us say, a certain ambiguity about what might or might not be the case in countries other than NZ and in which severe penalties are prescribed against homosexual sexual activity:<br /><br />"Separately, I wrote that Gafcon leaders have spoken out against laws that prescribe the death penalty for homosexual activity, which is true. Your comment "In some countries still, such a commitment results in execution" does not respond to my point. (I suspect it is also incorrect - in most such countries it is homosexual *activity* that is the crime - "making a commitment" just doesn't come into consideration. But that is another discussion)."<br /><br />I appreciate, therefore, your clarity in your most recent comment. Thank you.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-35530879829635670292012-11-16T01:53:19.773+13:002012-11-16T01:53:19.773+13:00But Peter, that is my point. Bosco wrote: "Th...But Peter, that is my point. Bosco wrote: "Thanks also for the clarification that in countries where homosexuals get executed for homosexual “activity” they can make a commitment without consequences". <br /><br />Yet that is the opposite of what I clarified - if you look at my post before that, you will see that I had writen: "My comment about nothing stopping homosexuals from committing to a life-long relationship was a reference to where Father Ron is (which I assume is New Zealand) not to any and every country on earth." <br /><br />My original point (to <br />Father Ron, not to Bosco) was that a lifelong homosexual commitment is not a marriage. That obviously cannot be referring to countries where homosexuality is a crime - the issue of homosexual marriage simply does not arise there. MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-82100038628287029722012-11-15T22:18:26.324+13:002012-11-15T22:18:26.324+13:00Thank you, Peter.Thank you, Peter.Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.com.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-90152029318840904172012-11-15T19:31:45.938+13:002012-11-15T19:31:45.938+13:00Er, MichaelA and Shawn, I think it is time to call...Er, MichaelA and Shawn, I think it is time to call a halt to saying others are playing the word games. The point at issue is that in some countries, including Uganda, where it is CHRISTIANS calling for tougher laws, it is incredibly dangerous to signal in any public manner that one is gay (whether or not one is sexually active etc). I would prefer commenters here to think carefully about making statements that any way shape or form give credence to views that it is okay through law to enshrine an unsafe environment for gay people in any country. I am sure we appreciate the (relative) safety and protection afforded all people in NZ and Oz through our laws, bill of rights and so forth. Should we not be keen to see similar respect for human dignity throughout the world?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-9021372332698511122012-11-15T18:42:19.075+13:002012-11-15T18:42:19.075+13:00"No Bosco, you have no excuse for such a misu..."No Bosco, you have no excuse for such a misunderstanding this time around - I made very clear that that is not what I meant. You are just being mischievous."<br /><br />Get used to it. I have been on the recieving end of these word games myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-70128782698081310952012-11-15T11:27:06.138+13:002012-11-15T11:27:06.138+13:00"Thanks also for the clarification that in co..."Thanks also for the clarification that in countries where homosexuals get executed for homosexual “activity” they can make a commitment without consequences"<br /><br />No Bosco, you have no excuse for such a misunderstanding this time around - I made very clear that that is not what I meant. You are just being mischievous.MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-18022504918078038102012-11-15T07:21:29.169+13:002012-11-15T07:21:29.169+13:00I’m afraid that my command of the English language...I’m afraid that my command of the English language, MichaelA, is obviously not as good as the objective observers you refer to. This has led me to read into “nothing has ever stopped them” some things that obviously just weren’t there – the idea that “ever” meant “ever”. Thanks also for the clarification that in countries where homosexuals get executed for homosexual “activity” they can make a commitment without consequences – I was unaware of that subtlety. <br /><br />Since my English is obviously incapable of communicating usefully, I will have to bow to your objective understanding of the language, and accept that homosexual commitment cannot <i>ever</i> be called and will not <i>ever</i> be able to be called “marriage”. <br /><br />Now is that “ever” as you use it – or as I use it?<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Bosco liturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-17950805391257727362012-11-15T00:28:07.586+13:002012-11-15T00:28:07.586+13:00Bosco,
You seem to be reading things into my pos...Bosco, <br /><br />You seem to be reading things into my post that just aren't there. <br /><br />My comment about nothing stopping homosexuals from committing to a life-long relationship was a reference to where Father Ron is (which I assume is New Zealand) not to any and every country on earth. If the word "ever" in my original sentence confused you then I apologise and withdraw that word - although I think it would have been obvious to any objective observer that I was talking about the situation right now. <br /><br />In the process of misunderstanding my post, you have managed to obscure my actual point, so let me reiterate it: <br /><br />A homosexual couple can make a "lifelong commitment" to each other if they please. They may even stick to it. But its not marriage. <br /><br />Separately, I wrote that Gafcon leaders have spoken out against laws that prescribe the death penalty for homosexual activity, which is true. Your comment "In some countries still, such a commitment results in execution" does not respond to my point. (I suspect it is also incorrect - in most such countries it is homosexual *activity* that is the crime - "making a commitment" just doesn't come into consideration. But that is another discussion)MichaelAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-15342874487528570052012-11-14T21:25:06.473+13:002012-11-14T21:25:06.473+13:00Was this the first example of "discussion&quo...Was this the first example of "discussion" with liberalism?<br /><br />Eve... "God told us..."<br /><br />Satan... "Did God REALLY say that?"<br /><br />It is striking how much liberalism sounds at times just like those first recorded words of Satan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-9866200576025225662012-11-14T21:06:50.234+13:002012-11-14T21:06:50.234+13:00"So your "nothing has ever stopped them&..."So your "nothing has ever stopped them" is just plain wrong."<br /><br />Not really. If people want to sin they will find a way, regardless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-74032557686890435102012-11-14T21:04:44.685+13:002012-11-14T21:04:44.685+13:00"If that cannot be acknowledged, then, really..."If that cannot be acknowledged, then, really - there's no discussion happening here at all. Just heat and noise."<br /><br />Well, there is plenty of "heat and noise" coming from the pro-homosexual sect of the Church. and certainly no discussion. In fact there never has been any intention of genuine discussion from that wing.<br /><br />"Fr Ron may make some comments that are open for discussion,"<br /><br />Only some? Most more like it. And most are not "open for discussion" but just plain wrong.<br /><br />"but this was certainly one of his better points."<br /><br />Not really. It was just one of the usual excuses used to attack the Bible's clear teaching on marriageAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com