tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post584201805639040123..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Milk Powder is Bad for Christian GrowthPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-69598359441077535992014-03-07T08:19:47.132+13:002014-03-07T08:19:47.132+13:00Dear Anonymous
The general rule here is that comme...Dear Anonymous<br />The general rule here is that comments should come with a name but I will make an exception here.<br /><br />Thank you for your kind words. There is a little bit of mock irony in my self-description: I am sure some do not find me eager to please and wish I was more co-operative.<br /><br />Yes, there definitely are exceptions where wealth/passionate spirituality are concerned but I think the general rule holds good, that when economic times for a country are going well, there are more distractions on Sunday mornings and at least one or three less compelling reasons to seek God.<br /><br />What you say about South Canterbury is noted. In my own experience of living in different regions of NZ, there are differences to the expressions of Christianity in each region. Overlaid, of course, with some general Kiwi Christian culture characteristics!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-6842783969088833682014-03-07T07:21:48.699+13:002014-03-07T07:21:48.699+13:00Hi Peter, as a south canterburian we are very gra...Hi Peter, as a south canterburian we are very grateful you are eager to please if that is any encouragement. there is much need here for an independent, educated, humble and passionate voice such as yourself.<br /><br />Re milk powder. It has been interesting for rme. I grew up in south canterbury but spent many years in Wellington attending Churton Park Anglican Church before coming back here several years ago.<br /><br />I agree with concept of wealth making people see less need for God in their lives. Yet the church I used to attend was in a wealthy area (although not all were well off) and was very vibrant and alive. What I encounter in this area is slightly different, it is as though a bit like Holy Trinity Brompton's book title people see church (especially those under 45) as being irrelevant. <br /><br />I admire the amazing pastoral care in this area (it is indeed amazing). Passionate spirituality is low. Those in the church are reluctant to talk about their faith in and outside of the church and while I am sure many are dedicated to private prayer, everybody participating in praying (such as in a group) is rarely practiced.<br /> <br />These are just my observations and I think a reflection of the fact many in the church here grew up in a society where everyone attended church but profession of faith itself was a private matter. <br /><br />So.... all the best with your new role (smile)... <br /><br />Seriously, as a person growing up in a traditional church and moving to a more charismatic one; I needed to learn how to pray in a group and not be embarassed, I valued someone showing me how to pray for others, I witnessed how gifts of the spirit (such as words of knowledge) used within the structure of a church spoke to people's hearts and I attended groups where we actually practiced these things in a safe envirnoment, including preaching and prophecy;, and I witnessed how the testimony of others in the church encouraged us all.<br /><br />And so my personal faith grew and alongside it the confidence to share with the congregation my own faith journey, a willingness to receive prayer (I was in there nearly every week) and a desire to share my faith with others outside our church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-83281996879334150032014-03-03T11:52:07.229+13:002014-03-03T11:52:07.229+13:00Hi James
There is food for thought in the link.
I...Hi James<br />There is food for thought in the link.<br /><br />I see three factors (at least) coming together in growing churches:<br />- challenge<br />- great worship (which includes but is not confined to renewed commitment to classic liturgy, (but that, in my experience, needs to be done well)<br />- relevance (not in the sense of cultural accommodation, but in the sense that what I experience in the gathering of the church I can related to my experience of the world between gatherings).<br />Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-30283358303193569072014-03-03T11:52:06.142+13:002014-03-03T11:52:06.142+13:00Hi James
There is food for thought in the link.
I...Hi James<br />There is food for thought in the link.<br /><br />I see three factors (at least) coming together in growing churches:<br />- challenge<br />- great worship (which includes but is not confined to renewed commitment to classic liturgy, (but that, in my experience, needs to be done well)<br />- relevance (not in the sense of cultural accommodation, but in the sense that what I experience in the gathering of the church I can related to my experience of the world between gatherings).<br />Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-43913992991284576672014-03-03T11:31:03.666+13:002014-03-03T11:31:03.666+13:00Yes Peter, I agree that in prosperous times people...Yes Peter, I agree that in prosperous times people do not tend to seek God; in my experience it is often in extremis of circumstance that the non-Christian may turn (or Christian prodigal return) to the church. But, in many of our churches, what do they get when they do so? An easy "gospel" accommodated to the world's agenda which does not identify the cause of spiritual hunger and unhappiness (sin), nor proffer the only remedy for such a state: submission to Christ through Word and Sacrament and the transforming power of the Holy Spirit. IMO it is in part the "product" we are offering that in the long run turns people away empty. In a related and pertinent theme of why churches lose their youth, perhaps you may like to see http://marysanawim.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/fact-demanding-liturgical-churches-attract-youth/<br /><br />Much food for thought.James Stewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00280184306736762037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-44696390971222450122014-03-03T09:40:09.409+13:002014-03-03T09:40:09.409+13:00Hi Bosco
Most likely! But, it is a fraught subject...Hi Bosco<br />Most likely! But, it is a fraught subject in (at least) this way (re one aspect of wealth): many in the churches are concerned about the growth of dairy farming re changes to landscape, changes to water quality (and quantity left over for other uses), so (perhaps) it has been tricky to offer an unqualified thanks to God for our material growth as a nation since not all welcome it.<br /><br />Alongside your important point about giving thanks could lie other questions: have we offered an approach to faith which permeates all aspects of life: need and plenty, life and death, youthful exuberance and the weariness of aging, health and sickness? Could this be measured (say) by (what I percieve as) fewer occasions on which grace is said before meals ... <br /><br />Much to ponder :)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-29449184178330013922014-03-03T09:25:21.130+13:002014-03-03T09:25:21.130+13:00Thanks for some important points here, Peter.
Has...Thanks for some important points here, Peter.<br /><br />Has the church "undersold" the importance, value, need, significance, potency of giving thanks ("eucharist")?<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Boscoliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-81575695792081082772014-03-03T09:10:58.845+13:002014-03-03T09:10:58.845+13:00Yes, Shirley, they can be deceiving. Clearly even ...Yes, Shirley, they can be deceiving. Clearly even 95% employment (to cite but one aspect of economic well-being) leaves 5% not experiencing the good times ...Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-9595142623278252152014-03-03T08:40:56.195+13:002014-03-03T08:40:56.195+13:00I am not so sure about the good times you speak of...I am not so sure about the good times you speak of Peter, looks can be deceiving.Shirleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-1497839043504060192014-03-03T07:32:34.552+13:002014-03-03T07:32:34.552+13:00Thanks Pageantmaster :)Thanks Pageantmaster :)Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-36713549262223132952014-03-03T07:24:20.415+13:002014-03-03T07:24:20.415+13:00Many congratulations Peter+ - may your ministry fl...Many congratulations Peter+ - may your ministry flourish [the current bon mot I hear].Pageantmasternoreply@blogger.com