tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post6082405118033919624..comments2024-03-29T17:55:30.203+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Scripture, Tradition, Reason as a Sleight of HandPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-64956550829837759312011-01-20T21:01:47.201+13:002011-01-20T21:01:47.201+13:00One could have an interesting discussion, Ron, as ...One could have an interesting discussion, Ron, as to whether it is Reason or Revelation (of the Spirit) which has led the church to its various changing positions over the centuries on usury, slavery, etc.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-55211407460201121932011-01-20T15:41:58.111+13:002011-01-20T15:41:58.111+13:00"One might also note that in Anglican liturgy..."One might also note that in Anglican liturgy Scripture retains a special place (we read from it, and not from Tradition or Reason). Is it not odd that when making decisions, some Anglicans then demote Scripture to equal footing with Tradition and Reason?"<br /><br /> - Peter Carrell -<br /><br />Scripture has to be our 'Founding Document, as the Hebrew Scriptures were the founding document for the Jewish Faith. It was not until the coming of Jesus that new way of understanding (and new scripture) appeared on the scene. Certainly, Jesus brought new interpretation into the understanding of The Old Scriptures.<br /><br />When Jesus said "When the Spirit comes (He) will lead you into all truth", he surely was not speaking of a static event (Pentecost) when all the ages since have received new revelation through the power of the Holy Spirit. <br /><br />It is in the light of that reality that the Church gains new insights into the message of Scripture, and progressively acts upon this with the aid of Tradition and insights of continuing Reason. After all, this has demonstrated the changing wisdom of the Church on matters of slavery, usury, and now aspects of gender discrimination.<br /> - The Anglican Way!Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27327019181025783482011-01-20T09:30:58.485+13:002011-01-20T09:30:58.485+13:00Excellent point, Paul!Excellent point, Paul!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-69134639755761542592011-01-20T03:20:06.161+13:002011-01-20T03:20:06.161+13:00I think the real problem is the "three-legged...I think the real problem is the "three-legged stool" imagery with its suggestion that all three carry equal weight. It's more useful to see tradition and reason as tools to help interpret scripture (in the same way that precedents and reason are used to interpret statutes, at least in common-law countries), not to override it.Paul Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04833212693999583069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-83382620633979427742011-01-19T14:23:50.773+13:002011-01-19T14:23:50.773+13:00Point taken, Kurt!Point taken, Kurt!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-53713078571533796662011-01-19T09:45:20.848+13:002011-01-19T09:45:20.848+13:00“It offers no parameters as to what constitutes &#...“It offers no parameters as to what constitutes 'Tradition' (so, for example, evangelical Anglicans might count heavily as Tradition the Calvinist influences of the 16th and 17th centuries, trumpeting the 39A as superbly representative of Anglican tradition, while anglo-catholic Anglicans might count heavily as Tradition the Catholic influences at work prior to Cranmer and later renewed in the 19th century).”—Fr. Carrell<br /><br />You just hit on one of my pet peeves: over emphasis on the importance of the Catholic Revival in Anglican/Episcopal history. Catholic Anglicanism was alive and well long before 1850, at least in North America.<br /><br />Prior to the influence of the Oxford Movement and “Ritualism” there were already many distinctive customs and practices (i.e, “Traditions”) that existed in various American Episcopal churches and chapels. These customs and practices set Episcopal worship apart from that of the Anabaptists, Calvinists, Quakers and most other Protestants in their communities. For example:<br /><br />The construction of cruciform church buildings; the design of apses and deep, railed chancels; the eastward orientation of altars and chancels; the creation of carved and gilded reredoses; the setting up of pictorial altar-pieces; the appointment of richly colored and woven altar-carpets (“Laudians”); the use of altar-lights and other elaborately worked communion plate; the use of credence tables; the installation of chancel-screens; the employment of hassocks for keeling and tasseled cushions for service books; the utilization of fringed and tasseled damask hangings on pulpits and reading desks; the hanging of Canopies of State (Baldachins) in vice-regal chapels; bowing to the altar upon entering and leaving church and at the Holy Name; daily public services of Morning and Evening Prayer; celebrations of the Choral Eucharist on major Festivals; use of the eastward position in celebrating the Holy Mysteries; adding water to wine in the Eucharistic chalice; prayer for the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the consecrated elements; prayer of oblation of the consecrated elements; weekly Sunday celebrations of the Holy Eucharist; celebrations of the Holy Eucharist on Saints’ Days; kneeling at the altar-rail to receive the Holy Communion; the placement of ambries in sacristies; the Reservation of the Blessed Sacrament; the use of the sign of the cross; the liturgical use of incense; the employment of surpliced boy choristers; the utilization of service music and of organ accompaniment; the weekly Sunday celebration of the Choral Eucharist; the revival of both Anglican and Gregorian chant; the chanting of the Psalms in both English and Latin; the singing of anthems in procession; the carrying of lighted Flambeaux in procession; the setting up of carved stone Baptismal Fonts; the practice of auricular confession; the utilization of black or purple Palls for funerals; the recitation of prayers for the dead; the burial of prominent parishioners beneath naves and chancels; the installation of elaborately carved memorials; retention of the verge and the office of Verger; the setting up of religious statues; the hanging of depictions of the crucifixion and of the Blessed Virgin Mary and other saints; the installation of Peals of Bells; the “sticking of the church” with boughs of evergreen during Yuletide; the fitting of the first American-made figural stained glass; the wearing of vestments and other clerical accouterments including the alb, cassock, cope, miter, surplice, tippet, hood, Canterbury cap, bishop’s wig, crosier, episcopal ring, rochet, chimere, lawn sleeves, clerical bands, (and probably the chasuble also); the creation of carved, gilded, and canopied bishops’ cathedras; the public display of gilt and polychrome miters signifying a pro-cathedral; etc., etc. <br /><br />Kurt Hill<br />Brooklyn, NYKurtnoreply@blogger.com