tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post6624429480371764269..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Is Jesus Saviour of the World or Saviour of the Elect?Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-34066387166813252552009-03-02T13:48:00.000+13:002009-03-02T13:48:00.000+13:00Hi AnonymousThanks for the references - Helm is a ...Hi Anonymous<BR/>Thanks for the references - Helm is a clear think and able exponent of Calvin.<BR/>I agree there are no easy answers here as there are problems with Arminian counter-proposals to predestination.<BR/>I agree that a fair amount of Calvinism is in Anglicanism - and have little problem with that ... but glad that we are not tied lock stock and barrel to Calvinism (or Augustinianism).<BR/>Incidentally I entirely accept that Christ died as a substitutionary atonement for our sins and bore the consequences of them in our place ... its the word 'penal' which troubles me, not because I do not think God is wrathful but because it buys into too many human agendas re 'crime and punishment'!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-85017344439422588702009-03-02T11:08:00.000+13:002009-03-02T11:08:00.000+13:00Here's a link to Helm's blog, which is linked to m...Here's a link to Helm's blog, which is linked to many other things he says about Calvinism and reprobation:<BR/><BR/>http://paulhelmsdeep.blogspot.com/2008/02/will-of-calvins-god-can-god-be-trusted.html<BR/><BR/>On the question of god's love for the world which you raised, Carson's little book 'The Difficult Doctrine of God's Love' is worth perusing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-11290822168268253032009-03-02T10:45:00.000+13:002009-03-02T10:45:00.000+13:00As a principle of debate, we should always engage ...As a principle of debate, we should always engage the most capable representatives of a view. I don't recall that 'Pierced for our Trangressions' was primarily about predestination (it's a defense of the historical pedigree of PSA), but I think a historical theologican like Michael Ovey (an expert on patristics) could no doubt capably turn his hand to that. And you surely know that the mystery of predestination has preoccupied the church long before Calvin: it is there in Augustine, was a lively topic in the early medieval period (the subject of Pannenberg's Habilitationsschrift, IIRC), and was taken up by RC Archbishop Jansen in his 'Augustinus' (and championed by no less than Psacal). The Anglican 39 Articles have always seemed pretty Calvinist to me, and the leading contemporary Anglican Calvinist is surely J. I. Packer. Dip into 'Knowing God' for his take on this. (Packer also wrote a substantial essay on 'The Logic of Substitutionary Atonement', and traced modern objections to it to Socinianism.) No surprise that contemporary Moore differs from Broughton Knox, any more that they disagree with T. C. Hammond's idealism. So let us not rush to judgment! <BR/>I think the philosopher-theologian Paul Helm is the real person to grapple with here - see his blog 'Helm's Deep' for discussions of Calvinism, freewill, predestination etc. I'm not sure, but I think philosopher William Lane Craig is Arminian and he invokes Molinism and middle knowledge (divine knowledge of counter-factuals) in defense of this view. D. A. Carson argues for some kind of 'concursive combatibilism' in Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility'.<BR/>There is no simple answer either way! But biblical theology and constructive philosophical theology need each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com