tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post6849671000300671577..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Post Newman thoughts on shape of Down Under Anglicanism Part 2 of however manyPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-56033148376062742312019-10-31T02:57:21.068+13:002019-10-31T02:57:21.068+13:00Thank you, Glen.
Offhand, I do not see a connect...Thank you, Glen. <br /><br />Offhand, I do not see a connection between something done by an RC priest in SC and + Peter's OP and thread. Can you make that link a bit more explicit for us?<br /><br />BWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-33183363027187784132019-10-30T15:07:19.468+13:002019-10-30T15:07:19.468+13:00Yes agreed - it was an excellent and very interest...Yes agreed - it was an excellent and very interesting interview.<br /><br />Might even read the book - I'm interested in how he deals with the conversion of Paul - he touched on it, but got side-tracked somewhat - it seemed he struggled with the supernatural aspect of what could explain Saul/Paul's dramatic change from persecutor to the person who could write say Phillipians - "...yearn for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus".<br /><br />If Paul didn't have an encounter with the risen Lord then I'm not quite sure what else could explain it.Craig Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18167449598185070552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-74310719341235320492019-10-30T09:20:26.880+13:002019-10-30T09:20:26.880+13:00Thank you Bishop Peter; this time, for your lihk t...Thank you Bishop Peter; this time, for your lihk to Kim Hill's radio interview with Christos Tsiolkos. I think ALL your readers on ADU would benefit from hearing this 'non-Christian' (gay) contemporary writer's understanding of what he sees as the 'Christian' insistence on love of the 'other' as a basic philosophy of living. He also sees the problem of fundamentalist domination in the world of religion - something we all have to be wary of as ministers of the Gospel. Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-86844687514157230872019-10-29T18:55:25.298+13:002019-10-29T18:55:25.298+13:00
Hi B.W.,
In the meantime I read that Joe Biden ...<br />Hi B.W.,<br /> <br />In the meantime I read that Joe Biden was refused the Sacraments at a Church in Carolina because of his stance on abortion.Glennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-55315161049987635392019-10-29T08:46:52.742+13:002019-10-29T08:46:52.742+13:00On (1) above, Edward Feser just happens to have an...On (1) above, Edward Feser just happens to have an OP up in which the exception proves the rule-- the first northern pope in several centuries explains the Christian virtues of the nation-state. If his Reformation-era predecessors had believed anything like this, the C16-18 and our whole civilisation would be unimaginably different today.<br /><br />*<br /><br />In (3), forthcoming at the weekend, I will digress to remind readers here of our past ADU discussions of: (a) the scriptural basis for the BCP language of participation and incorporation, (b) the recent retrieval of St Paul's *union with Christ* among even conservative confessional Protestants, (c) a pilgrim church's use of the scriptures to discern with authority, and (d) the way *exclusive* reliance on law-soaked doctrine can obscure participation and incorporation in even an Anglican mind blessed all along with the apostolic faith. There is only time and space for a precis of ideas already explored in long threads here, but readers unable even to imagine how Protestantism can be anything but "snake-belly low" will be able to look further to see that even the confessional Reformed have been capable in places of something like authentic Anglicanism.<br /><br />Which brings us to (4) next week, a comment on how the Communion-- and maybe ACANZP-- might live with the scriptures in a way that helps the many formed in a low church sensibility to make head and heart sense of the way an apostolic church discerns and lives the will of God through time. <br /><br />BW<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11931946224142718747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-19987607841151195022019-10-29T08:36:35.940+13:002019-10-29T08:36:35.940+13:00Peter, so far as I have seen here up yonder, those...Peter, so far as I have seen here up yonder, those who have departed Down Under have not spoken for themselves on what they believe about the Spirit's gifts. And the words that I have seen from them echo those of factions in circumstances so different from theirs that they do not explain very much (eg ACANZP is not TEC; the OoW was not SSB; St Louis apostasy language is bizarre even here.). We may simply have to wait for someone among the departed in New Zealand to discern and explain the theology that they live *in situ*. In passing, my third and fourth comments will venture a hopeful guess about what that might be.<br /><br />In the meantime, it seems charitable and irenic to point out that the three blessings are a package. Speaking systematically, the third blessing above-- the richer ecclesiality that we know as Anglican-- depends on the second blessing of salvation through participation in Christ and incorporation in his Body. Thus neglect of the second blessing tends to inhibit the bonds of affection and instruments of communion that we know as Anglican. We can put this positively thus--<br /><br />(2) Participation in Christ and incorporation in his Body entails a pilgrim church making discernments, often reparative ones, in historical time. <br /><br />For fans of the 39A, the obvious examples are Thomas Cranmer's expansion of the 10A and Matthew Parker's reworking of the 42A to produce them, but others might look to the continual improvement of the BCP within Cranmer's ordo. Either way, without (2) we have no Anglican orders, no Lambeth Conference, no Anglican Communion, and no Anglican identity beyond a particular aesthetic. And indeed, without (2) there is no global need or authority for any of these things. <br /><br />Now the louder friends of the departed speak here and there as though what we take to be a Spirit-given reality is merely arbitrary man-made law to which we adhere, not organically, but by will. Again, we should reject ventriloquism here and let the departed speak for themselves. But meanwhile (2) illumines a pair of problems that this view could hypothetically pose for the departed at such a moment as this one. <br /><br />(a) If a body does not have a lived faith that induces timely discernment in Christ, then it has no place in the councils of a Communion that exists to discern. <br /><br />(b) If a body does obey arbitrary man-made laws rather than the discernment proper to participation in Christ and incorporation in his Body, then it is not living as the fellowship of the apostles.<br /><br />Such a body is unlikely to be in any way wicked, and a saying of Jesus suggests that he accepts even non-disciples who invoke his power to do the Father's will. But it may all along have been confused about what it believes and among whom it belongs, so that only now in the crisis of leaving ACANZP could the deep questions about its practice surface to view, not only for those who have left, but for the Communion itself. <br /><br />BWUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11931946224142718747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-84768885029009989212019-10-29T01:24:53.154+13:002019-10-29T01:24:53.154+13:00Four brief thoughts on your OP will follow over th...Four brief thoughts on your OP will follow over the next few days, Peter. The middle one will have an eye on discussions in two other threads.<br /><br />(1) Like Martin Luther and Louis XIV, Henry VIII was a Gallican ;-) Whatever their theology, when all northern Europeans looked south and East, the Body that they saw east of Trieste had petrine unity in the Patriarch of Constantinople, but national churches with autocephaly (they elected their own primates) and autonomy (they enacted their own canons). Why then should archbishops in Reykjavik, Copenhagen, Nidaros, Uppsala, Turku, Utrecht, Canterbury, Paris, Gniezno, Bremen, or Friesing have their hands tied in provincial matters by an ultramontane Italian princeling in decadent Rome? <br /><br />From the Arctic Circle to the Alps, all could be grateful that the papacy had once filled a power vacuum in the West. But through the rise of so many unified realms in the north of the West, this vacuum had long since been filled by kings like those of the south of the East. By the C16, the Western monarchs, although usually theologically conservative, were demanding some devolution of power from Rome. <br /><br />This created an opportunity for theological Protestants, but it has no intrinsic relationship to their distinctive theology of justification. Luther's Augsburg Confession petitions the Holy Roman Empire, not for a break with Rome, but for a papacy that willingly devolved power to meet the civil and pastoral need for Reformation. <br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallicanism<br /><br />https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Utrecht<br /><br />BWUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11931946224142718747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-2853210053547053482019-10-28T19:30:49.142+13:002019-10-28T19:30:49.142+13:00Thanks, Bishop Peter, for encouraging your readers...Thanks, Bishop Peter, for encouraging your readers to further contemplate the root problem with what happened in Christchurch on Saturday 19 October re the schismatic entry of a 'Confessional' Church. Relative to this, and your inclusion of our American friend Bowman's reflection on Anglican 'Body of Christ' theology; here, I think is a seminal paragraph from Bowman's comments:<br /><br />"Perhaps that explains why the CoE also has a BCP from Cranmer that orders the sacramental and devotional life of Christians around participation in Christ and incorporation into his mystical Body. Unlike most other Protestants, Anglicans have not had to adopt an arid individualism or an unreal intellectualism in order to trust God with their justification, sanctification, and vocation. Paradoxically, this richer ecclesiality has supported a warm personalism, a close acquaintance with Christ in the psalms, and a freedom to love God with the mind. Where other sorts of Protestants (eg William Ames) sometimes harbour paralysing doubts about the Spirit's indwelling of souls and congregations, the Anglican style (eg Richard Sibbes) normally and quite properly assumes it."<br /><br />This surely reflects the reality that Anglican inclusivism - not its distinctive protestantism - encourages us to believe that all moral justification comes from Christ - not from ourselves, or our efforts to purify ourselves by obedience to The Law. This latter seems, to me at least, to be what the new 'Confessing, quasi-Anglican Church' insists upon. We Anglicans are not perfect, but at least we are trying to be part of the Body of Christ - sinners, and yet redeemed. <br /><br />Here is my constant prayer: "O God, for-as-much-as without you we are NOT ABLE to please you; mercifully grant that, in all our words and works, your Holy Spirit so rule and direct our hearts and lives, that we may do those things that you expect of us; to the glory of your name and through the grace of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen." Father Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17062632692873621258noreply@blogger.com