tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post7035000532627289041..comments2024-03-30T00:33:32.285+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: We already have alternative episcopal arrangements in our churchPeter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-13318960563012331302013-04-30T03:11:52.452+12:002013-04-30T03:11:52.452+12:00Many thanks Peter,
How indeed do we make every ef...Many thanks Peter,<br /><br />How indeed do we make every effort to maintain unity while disagreeing, particularly on gay marriage?<br /><br />One important step is to recognise that gay marriage is not a primary issue. People at both extremes of the debate assume that gay marriage is primary, ie more important than the need to maintain unity. The 'Windsor Report' highlighted the importance of the question of 'primaryness' but the question has not been properly addressed. <br /><br />I have recently written gaymarriagemaybe.wordpress.com to argue for a 'robust middle ground' position on gay marriage, with Biblical arguments that it is not primary.<br /><br />Let's be strong, confident, typically Anglican middle grounders and keep calling for unity.<br /><br />Roger Harper (UK)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-2631743094418971122013-04-24T13:19:17.119+12:002013-04-24T13:19:17.119+12:00The desire for unity Peter is not only admirable; ...The desire for unity Peter is not only admirable; it is necessary. At least, all creedal and Scripture loving Christians will see our Lord’s Prayer of Jn 17, climaxing in “ut unum sint”, as JP2 memorably stated it, to be a vital and necessary discernment of the divine will and purpose.<br /><br />That said of course, there are a host of questions on what exactly are the means of that unity. In relation to this thread, we need to ask whether episcopacy is of the <i>esse</i> of the Church or only its <i>bene esse</i>. Anglicanism has prevaricated at just this point. Hooker would say, as I read him, the latter, while most Anglo-Catholics since the mid 19th C onwards would say the former. ARCIC under the rubric of Authority has also tended towards the former, with its explorations of some kind of Petrine Office.<br /><br />But issues of unity are not the sole function of episcopacy. As many an Evangelical would insist, the apostolic nature of the Church is also complex. For the Church’s participation in the <i>missio Dei</i> has to safeguard traditionally two features. Adherence to the apostolic witness to this mission gives us the first element, while faithfulness to the community (<i>communio Dei</i>) which the apostles and prophets founded offers the second. Thereafter, structurally speaking, matters of “communion” (κοινωνία), “collegiality” and “conciliarity” combine, and themselves rest upon the other three creedal marks of the Church <i>as lived out</i>. Here we see most forcibly that each and all the marks of the Church properly coinhere - as befits that community of the Trinitarian God, Father Son and Holy Spirit. For the apostolic nature of the Church is none other than her baptism into this Name (Matt 28:16-20) lived out and realised, commissioned, as God’s covenant partner.<br /><br />The upshot Peter is that if the ACANZ&P truly desires unity, it has to be authentically founded and grounded. I frankly do not see us able to wrestle particularly well with these tough matters - at least, if our recent track record of the various Huis is anything to go by ...Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-16105396861797445192013-04-23T14:59:51.767+12:002013-04-23T14:59:51.767+12:00Peter,
I think your prayer 'my fervent praye...Peter, <br />I think your prayer 'my fervent prayer and wish for our church is that we find a way forward which does not involve new episcopal arrangements' is noble but how can a parish, or parishoner or clergyman submit to the authority of General Synod if/when it approves errant teaching as Canon Law? <br /><br />+Jim White appears to be undersetimating how deeply this issue affects eveangelicals, I am floored that he thinks "we would simply decide that we are together and that we want to stay together."<br />I wonder who the 'we' he mentions is. There are plenty of evangelical Anglicans I know who aren't that interested in staying together with people who don't believe Scripture to be the authority of life, faith and practice. <br /><br />For +Jim to suggest this issue is akin to pacifism is insulting and shows the real lack of understanding progressive Anglicans have when it comes to evangelical identity and belief.<br /><br />I don't see any real way we can walk together with bishops who reject Scripture and continue to peddle the bizarre belief that so long as we celebrate the Lord's Supper together everything will be ok.Zane Elliottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-76658401471009392692013-04-23T12:59:08.861+12:002013-04-23T12:59:08.861+12:00Yes, folks, issues, not personalities.Yes, folks, issues, not personalities.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-1731909817571363212013-04-23T12:43:32.242+12:002013-04-23T12:43:32.242+12:00I welcome pro-ssm and/or liberal contributions to ...I welcome pro-ssm and/or liberal contributions to ADU unreservedly. In fact I would like to see more theologically and biblically grounded arguments from a liberal pov as this would facilitate better theological debate. Emotive accusations of prejudice or personal psychological failings only manage to shut down the free exchange of views as commentors are forced to defend themselves against unfair accusations about their compassion for other human beings, or defend themselves against accusations of unelightened bigotry.<br /><br />By all means let's have a genuine diversity of views at ADU. But that will only happen if everyone feels free to air their view without fear that they will be personally attacked and subjected to public character assassination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-13642085051991860902013-04-23T12:00:46.956+12:002013-04-23T12:00:46.956+12:00Dear Ron,
What will be published here are views wh...Dear Ron,<br />What will be published here are views which do not involve inaccurate slating of one part of the church, or one set of brothers and sisters in Christ.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-17318369407224179972013-04-23T11:35:05.508+12:002013-04-23T11:35:05.508+12:00Considering the fact that you have 'banished&#...Considering the fact that you have 'banished' two recent comments from me. I have come to the conclusion that anything that does not agree with your own opinion of 'orthodoxy' in our Church is fated to remain unpublished on ADU. I see this as the death of reasoned argument on your blog and shall cease contributing from this day forth, for evermore.<br /><br />Mr Herles has won his battle! But - <br /><br />Christ is Risen, Alleluia!Father Ron Smithhttp://kiwianglo.wordpress.com.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-83851651753029246632013-04-23T10:36:54.850+12:002013-04-23T10:36:54.850+12:00DEar Ron
I have deleted a comment I recently poste...DEar Ron<br />I have deleted a comment I recently posted from you. It has rightly been drawn to my attention that language such as "the anti-gay <br />'sola-scriptura' school is now attributing to a rigorously literal and out-dated view of the Bible." is precisely what I have promised to commenters not to publish.<br /><br />I was remiss in not being rigorous in moderation and I apologise for my failure.<br /><br />I have also not published another comment from you this morning because in making a reasonable point it nevertheless included a gratuitous slap across the face of Christians you disagree with.<br /><br />Tone up, please, or tune out.<br /><br />We all belong to the one body of Christ.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-39628777495926488402013-04-22T21:56:58.459+12:002013-04-22T21:56:58.459+12:00Hi Eric
I am working on the plan that the unity of...Hi Eric<br />I am working on the plan that the unity of the church is assisted by denominations not fracturing further.<br /><br />Then we work on denominations joining together!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-29107655391522456002013-04-22T21:48:47.403+12:002013-04-22T21:48:47.403+12:00The unity to which Christ calls us applies to the ...The unity to which Christ calls us applies to the whole Church, not just to whole denominations. So if the organisation fractures, that is unfortunate, but the whole Church is already administratively divided.<br /><br />Erichttp://geomiss.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com