tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post7995831115484098483..comments2024-03-28T22:29:52.666+13:00Comments on Anglican Down Under: Fair to Russia? (now, with new Postscript)Peter Carrellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-45882398911864649502017-01-21T13:10:46.717+13:002017-01-21T13:10:46.717+13:00Please excuse my ignorance folks - but why on eart...Please excuse my ignorance folks - but why on earth does Oxfam call this era one of "neoliberalism"? By what criteria pray tell? For countless other forces are at play globally to create those graphic coloured lines ... Consequently, they/some may change by other means than neoliberalism's demise/weakening ... Bryden Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15619512328964399016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-79898550485573699632017-01-20T21:39:05.938+13:002017-01-20T21:39:05.938+13:00And Jean, you are right that Iraq and Turkey (not ...And Jean, you are right that Iraq and Turkey (not to mention Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt) were once Christian. Islam put an end to that. <br /><br />A warning from the past.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-59962641769921641772017-01-20T21:34:07.862+13:002017-01-20T21:34:07.862+13:00Hi Jean,
"I am not sure about judeo-christia...Hi Jean,<br /><br />"I am not sure about judeo-christian heritage and the connection with the west, has it always been?"<br /><br />No, as you say, Europe was once pagan. But Europe has been Christian for over a thousand years, thus it is, deeply, part of what makes the West what it is, culturally, politically, and spiritually. And I believe the Faith is essential to it's well being in those areas. This is not a claim to uniqueness however. Other parts of the world obviously have been, and are today, Christian as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62440679872936700562017-01-20T20:01:54.988+13:002017-01-20T20:01:54.988+13:00A lot of very broad subjects being contended....
...A lot of very broad subjects being contended....<br /><br />I am sure the link with neoliberalism with oxfam's tweet was more an attempt contrasting subjects held in opposition to gain the shock factor than any true attempt at co-relation for publicities sake. I personally don't think neoliberalism and a decrease in the markers of the poverty index have an awful lot in common since the later's existence extends a lot further back in history. It is fantastic that the % of people living in poverty has decreased worldwide. It is also good to keep in mind that overall the number of people living in poverty has not due to the increase of the worldwide population.<br /><br />The focus on inequality is primarily because the amount of inequality in a country is the best indicator that does co-relate with the degree of poverty. While there are always extreme's in terms of wealth, and it is not an automatic assumption that wealth or individuals who are rich are bad, the focus is on the 'overall' picture of society at large. <br /><br />In my opinion, and I agree with many commentators here, linking economy and values (which often determines how we use our wealth), the greater the linkage of economic providence with values the lower rate of inequality you will experience. Why? Because values usual encompass the common good as well as the individual good.<br /><br />Re HIV Aids drug research. Well... there was a time when Sth Africa and countries such as Thailand refused to acknowledge HIV/AIDS or its impact. There was a point in the last two decades whereby had money not been put into HIV/AIDS drugs, education and prevention in Africa that you may as well have given up on any other contribution to the social or economic welfare of the countries at risk. The drugs developed are now cheap, they give 90% of children born to HIV positive mothers the chance to prevent the disease passing onto their children, and they extend the life of people by twenty years. It is true that measles is the number one killer of children and every bit a priority (which it has been for decades with mass immunisations in developing countires). However, such things should not be played against each other they are not either and or games, they are and and and.... <br /><br />I am not sure about judeo-christian heritage and the connection with the west, has it always been? Well I know that is the foundation for many countries in the west now if not the current living reality. But wasn't there a time when countries such as Iraq and Turkey were more Christian? Wasn't Europe pagan until Christian's came there as missionaries from other nations?<br /><br />And to introduce another broad topic. The Pope acknowledges the positive influence of the reformation and now it seems the ABC is to apologise for the excess violence used:<br />http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/17/archbishop-canterbury-right-apologise-horrors-reformation/<br />Sounds suspiciously Christian to me.Jeannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-67747718493783238012017-01-20T18:46:38.140+13:002017-01-20T18:46:38.140+13:00Hi Peter; isn't the "L" just realist...Hi Peter; isn't the "L" just realistic. God already knew for whom he was dying. It was potentially the whole world, but God already knows who is.<br /><br />NickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-58072306371884938042017-01-20T13:05:47.531+13:002017-01-20T13:05:47.531+13:00I agree with you Shawn.
I could never be a Calvini...I agree with you Shawn.<br />I could never be a Calvinist and (so far) the most significant reason/shortfall concerns the "L" in TULIP!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-9573835927312175132017-01-20T12:55:01.180+13:002017-01-20T12:55:01.180+13:00On an entirely different note I finished Michael H...On an entirely different note I finished Michael Horton's 'For Calvinism' and no, I'm not convinced. At too many points it seems to impose it's theology on Scripture, rather than allowing Scripture to determine theology. To take one example, limited atonement. To me a plain reading of Scripture affirms that Christ died for the sins of the whole world. <br /><br />"He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2<br /><br />Calvinists believe He dies only for the sins of the elect. Horton tries to get around this by claiming that the "whole world" means the elect from all nations, but that to me is not a plain or natural reading of the text above.<br /><br />On this and a few other issues I got the sense that Sola Scriptura was being replaced with Sola Calvinism.<br /><br />Anyway, I thought I would inject a little theology into the blog, given the predominance of politics lately! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-30134644654300543752017-01-20T12:31:10.145+13:002017-01-20T12:31:10.145+13:00"The crucial question of the age is not who i..."The crucial question of the age is not who is richer than whom"<br /><br />I agree Peter. This is the problem I have with the focus on the gap between rich and poor and the hand wringing in certain circles and the media that goes with it. It misses the point entirely. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-2347590404504899352017-01-20T12:26:57.550+13:002017-01-20T12:26:57.550+13:00Hi Peter,
Meditating on Proverbs 18:2. And prayin...Hi Peter,<br /><br />Meditating on Proverbs 18:2. And praying for those who do not. Wishing the President-Elect godspeed in a difficult job that never goes as expected. Hoping that you will get back to Anglicanism etc some day.<br /><br />Bowman WaltonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-8864980354274219122017-01-20T12:08:11.714+13:002017-01-20T12:08:11.714+13:00I'll give you an example Peter
In the early 2...I'll give you an example Peter<br /><br />In the early 2000s George W Bush pledged $150 million dollars to fight AIDs in Africa<br /><br />In New York, San Francisco and Washington AIDs is a high profile disease and a lot, the bulk perhaps of that money would end up in the Bank accounts of American drug companies<br /><br />The average American wouldn't question the worthiness of this program<br /><br />But Manto Tshabalala-Msimang who was South Africa's minister of Health at the time, a doctor who had worked in South Africa all her professional life knew better - South Africans didn't need expensive AIDs drugs, it needed drugs to treat TB, malaria, bilharzia and so forth, diseases not on the radar of Manhattan liberals<br /><br />And she along with President Thabo Mbeki articulated this vociferously<br /><br />And boy did they get stick for this - read their wikipedia entries they are hard core hit pieces<br /><br />They did achieve something though George W Bush's program was amended to include TB and MalariaAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-88165053988588650902017-01-20T11:53:40.355+13:002017-01-20T11:53:40.355+13:00Indeed, Andrei.
I have no idea but I wonder if Oxf...Indeed, Andrei.<br />I have no idea but I wonder if Oxfam and Melinda Gates would share similar views re worthy causes?Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-86288757057759973842017-01-20T11:39:54.454+13:002017-01-20T11:39:54.454+13:00Peter it is not just how much money you "dona...Peter it is not just how much money you "donate".<br /><br />It is what it is spent on and what strings are attached<br /><br />Belinda Gates for example is really into "family planning" and not very interested in providing sewerage systems and clean running water to Kibera as well as training the people to maintain these systems on an ongoing basis, which might be money better spent.<br /><br />Family planning is sexy among the globalist elites, working sewerages systems not so much<br /><br /> Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-54978293325004860832017-01-20T11:39:25.952+13:002017-01-20T11:39:25.952+13:00The Tower of Babel
1 Now the whole world had one l...The Tower of Babel<br />1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.” 5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The LORD said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” 8 So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth.Rosemary Behanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11987628838945618258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-27240905200149302452017-01-20T09:48:19.742+13:002017-01-20T09:48:19.742+13:00Hi Brenda
I saw a formula recently (but can't ...Hi Brenda<br />I saw a formula recently (but can't recall where) which pointed out that Oxfam would take 100s years at its current rate of fund-raising to be able to give away as much money as Bill Gates has done.<br /><br />Their arguments make great headlines. That is all. Hart's wealth won't be cash in a cheque account but assets=businesses. Does it make any difference to the poor whether 100 businesses are owned by one person or by 100 people?<br /><br />The crucial question of the age is not who is richer than whom (I imagine you and I between us are wealthier than 3 billion fellow inhabitants of our planet) but whether the poorest among us are becoming less poor. The graph suggests that "poverty", thankfully, ain't what it used to be.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-61447167611763729662017-01-20T09:26:48.845+13:002017-01-20T09:26:48.845+13:00Hi Peter
Re your update. OXFAM are driven by a di...Hi Peter<br /><br />Re your update. OXFAM are driven by a discredited hard left ideology. Graeme Heart, one of the two NZ individuals whose wealth they recently railed against started out in business selling rolls of fax paper from his garage.<br /><br />I started out in business running a webhosting company from a converted woodshed attached to my house.<br /><br />Does OXFAM report on the generosity of those with incredible wealth? Bill Gates for example? Do they report that global poverty as defined by those living on $2.00 per day or less has halved over the last 30 years?<br /><br />Surely we need more wealthy people, not fewer.<br />Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-62991368331024467052017-01-20T07:54:23.063+13:002017-01-20T07:54:23.063+13:00"The economy exists to serve the well being o...<i>"The economy exists to serve the well being of the family first, then the nation. I don't care how technically efficient an economic system may be. If does not serve family and nation, it has no value. It has no honour."</i><br /><br />Well said Shawn<br /><br />All this ivory tower stuff looses sight of real flesh and blood people with real concerns.<br /><br />I see Barack Obama on his way out carried out <a href="http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/u-s-b-2-bombers-strike-isis-camps-near-sirte-n708776" rel="nofollow">a heavy duty bombing of Libya using B2 Bombers</a> <br /><br />According to the American media American bombs hit ISIS Training camps whereas Russian bombs unerringly head for children's hospitals<br /><br />Funny old worldAndreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-64446540278178483142017-01-20T07:54:07.084+13:002017-01-20T07:54:07.084+13:00"So, to be clear: many shortcomings to Obama&..."So, to be clear: many shortcomings to Obama's leadership, but I think the most objective one is the loss of his Democrat brothers and sisters from state and federal legislatures. Not least this is a huge problem because it likely means the overturning of his signature pieces of legislation."<br /><br />Since the Second World War, Peter, both parties have tended to lose more congressional and state elections the longer they hold the White House. Although great, the magnitude of the Democratic losses during Barack Obama's tenure has not been unusual. <br /><br />Democrats did lose 39 House seats under Obama. But Ronald Brownstein puts this in perspective-- "Parties almost always lose ground elsewhere while they hold the White House. In two-term presidencies since World War II, the incumbent president’s party lost more House seats than Democrats did with Obama under Bill Clinton (54), George W. Bush (45), and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford (44). The president’s party lost the same number of seats as Obama did under John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson (39) and fewer seats under Dwight Eisenhower (26). Senate losses exceeded Obama’s under Bush (14), Eisenhower (11), Kennedy and Johnson (8), and Clinton (6), while Republicans gained two senators under the Nixon and Ford administrations."<br /><br />"Obama lost fewer governorships than presidents’ parties surrendered under Kennedy and Johnson (15) and the Nixon and Ford administrations (13)—and lost more than under Eisenhower, Clinton, and Bush (nine each). Only in lost state legislative seats (850) did Obama significantly exceed any of these predecessors, according to data from the National Conference of State Legislatures."<br /><br />Interestingly, the one modern president who did not preside over such losses was Ronald Reagan. Why? Some would say that this was because his positive effect on party-building at every level immunized the GOP to the usual losses. Others would say that his warm, genial demeanor gave the electorate little desire to vote against him. Democrats today presumably hope that the latter explanation is true.<br /><br />Bowman WaltonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-63840000311822739842017-01-19T21:46:44.141+13:002017-01-19T21:46:44.141+13:00"especially when they say its a bad boy becau..."especially when they say its a bad boy because of inequality."<br /><br />Inequality is a fact of life no matter what economic system we have. I do think some economic systems or mixtures are better at mitigating the extremes of inequality than others, but some degree will always be a reality.<br /><br />My main problem with neoliberalism is not inequality, but that it has no sense of loyalty to anything other than profit. So my critique is not a utilitarian one, but one based on values. After God, a person's loyalty should be to one's family and kin first, then to the nation. The only economy I can assent to is one that reflects those loyalties. Utilitarian concerns about economic efficiency don't impress me for that reason.<br /><br />The economy exists to serve the well being of the family first, then the nation. I don't care how technically efficient an economic system may be. If does not serve family and nation, it has no value. It has no honour.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-28772318322496824612017-01-19T20:56:17.308+13:002017-01-19T20:56:17.308+13:00Ah, the perils of having to work through the day (...Ah, the perils of having to work through the day (and evening): I missed this lively debate!<br />I have learned a good deal through this robust exchange of views and would only add these snippets;<br /><br />1. Frankly, a great deal of what Obama signified was simply to do with his skin colour - and he traded heavily on that biological fact. After billing himself as a 'postracial candidate', he (and Biden) proceeded to put race up front and centre in their identity politics.<br />2. And yet the position of black Americans frankly looks no better to me 8 years later and maybe worse. Poverty, food stamps use and black imprisonment rates look as high as ever, maybe worse. Obama's legacy will be linked to Trayvon Martin ('If I had a son, he would have looked like him') - what is that but race baiting? - and the dreadful 'Black Lives Matter' business of organised rioting against the police - many of them black themselves. The sad truth is that the catastrophe of the black family is a cultural problem that doesn't really have a political solution. Years ago ex-Democrat Michael Novak and before him Democrat Daniel Moynihan put their fingers on the problem - and the way out.<br />3. Obama has always been haughty and disdainful of orthodox Christianity which I am sure he does not understand. Why should he? His upbringing was entirely Muslim or secular and his only experience of church was through the unhinged Jeremiah Wright. Obama's war on Catholic adoption agencies in the name of homosexuality, his abortion absolutism and his crusade to bring in 'transgender' loos in American schools should make any Christian shake his or her head in dismay. I do not know what his own religious beliefs are - most probably he is an agnostic, like Dukakis. Obama's narcissistic belief in himself - his skin colour, Arabic name and paternity - led him to believe he would somehow sort out the Middle East. His legacy: a total mess from Morocco to Pakistan. Bullying of black African Christians over homosexuality. Libya in chaos - with help from Cameron and Sarkozy, whom he generously blamed for screwing it up. The Muslim Brotherhood's reign of terror in Egypt. The rise of ISIS on Iraq. And so on and so on. And he even managed to put the boot into Israel on the way out - having failed to overthrow Netanyahu, as well as having failed to prevent Brexit in the UK (Cameron flew him in to sort out the rubes).<br />Does have cool? You bet? A Hollywood A lister? Absolutely. A golfer? Lots of practice there. As for what really counts ...BrianR https://www.blogger.com/profile/11084982458935874569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-31333371879889411562017-01-19T20:53:14.773+13:002017-01-19T20:53:14.773+13:00It may be chartmanship, Andrei, and it is likely d...It may be chartmanship, Andrei, and it is likely difficult to prove that neoliberalism and neoliberalism alone has improved the lot of humankind in the past few decades, and it is meaningless to the citizens of Saana, but it does make the point that neoliberalism might not be the "bad boy" ideology that many routinely make it out to be, especially when they say its a bad boy because of inequality.Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-45605569984221541602017-01-19T20:46:15.905+13:002017-01-19T20:46:15.905+13:00Meanwhile in Tula, a city that withstood the Ger...Meanwhile in Tula, a city that withstood the German advance in 1941 and did not fall <a href="https://youtu.be/Edxc5QQRDzE" rel="nofollow">it is Epiphany</a> Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-9256532332584269402017-01-19T20:29:25.633+13:002017-01-19T20:29:25.633+13:00For those concerned at the dangers of neoliberalis...<i>For those concerned at the dangers of neoliberalism, this Tweet may be useful to your argument :)</i><br /><br />That is called chartmanship Peter - it is about as significant as a Popeye cartoon but good for rallying the troops.<br /><br />I doubt it would do much to cheer up the citizens of Saana<br />Andreinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-46985071606390635322017-01-19T18:40:48.851+13:002017-01-19T18:40:48.851+13:00Andrei: we are at a change of era and I agree abou...Andrei: we are at a change of era and I agree about carrier forces!<br /><br />Shawn and Brenda re tone, robustness of debate: no problem at all. I never felt this was getting out of line. (I have been able to engage today 'cos of a bit of time but there will be other days where I won't "bite" ... but will be tempted to do so.<br /><br />Shawn: you could well be right - the next set of European elections will be very interesting to watch. Even today I saw a heading, somewhere, that Merkel is going to send Syrians back when the war is over.<br /><br />Generally: I think there is more to the "neoliberal" project than meets the eye but I am well aware that it is much critiqued from the left and from the right!Peter Carrellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09535218286799156659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-35333256090454552642017-01-19T17:15:47.236+13:002017-01-19T17:15:47.236+13:00The reality is that this debate is now largely aca...The reality is that this debate is now largely academic. The globalist project of a single world economy, with free movements of people, is dead in the water. The GFC, the migrant crisis, and ongoing terrorism have killed it off. Within the EU the free movements of people is gone. Nations within the EU are already re-asserting control of their borders.<br /><br />In the US Trump is the President and no amount of hysterical outrage and conspiracy mongering from the Dems is going to change that. In the UK Theresa May has just announced that Britain will be fully and totally leaving both the EU and the single market. Brexit will be total. In Germany the nationalist 'Alternative For Germany' party is snapping at the heels of Merkel, forcing her to change tack and make policy reversals. In Holland, after the elections in March Geert Wilder's nationalist 'Freedom Party' will be the largest party in the Dutch parliament. And in France both the leading contenders for President, Fillon and le Pen, are committed to ending free movement and re-asserting French control over their borders and radically reducing immigration.<br /><br />Davos Man has lost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3915617830446943975.post-79033014731663851342017-01-19T17:08:53.552+13:002017-01-19T17:08:53.552+13:00Hi Shawn
Good point around 'tone' and per...Hi Shawn<br /><br />Good point around 'tone' and perceptions of our posts. Mine also can appear to be somewhat harsher than I would intend in a normal conversation. It comes in part because words are of necessity limited in an exchange like this, and the desire to 'get to the essence' of the argument with economy of language.<br /><br />I too wish to signal my good will towards Peter and all who spend time posting here.<br /><br />Peter, I sometimes think you must be a secret masochist - making posts that contain an obvious line or two that will attract commentary from those like myself who feel almost duty bound to correct what appears to be such an obvious misconception! <br /><br />And, it's not like I'm in a minority. We are just queuing up to help re-educate you!<br /><br />And yet you still persist....<br /><br />Perhaps you should post something more in line with Shawn, Andrei and my thinking and drag your silent progressive, liberal socialist readers out of their apathy.... :-)<br /><br />*chuckle* Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.com