Thursday, May 22, 2014

Through Jesus we meet God, through us the world meets Jesus

Is there a more profound reading experience than reading John's Gospel and recognising a new depth of understanding?

Last Sunday and this coming Sunday the RCL takes us through John 14. The first few verses have become too familiar for me having taken a few funerals with verses 1-6 as the reading. But somehow this year my eyes have been drawn to new recognitions of what Jesus is saying in this last testament. Here is just one recognition from the two Sundays, from verse 20:

"In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you."

In these words 'a' if not 'the' central theme of John's Gospel is presented.

As the Son is to the Father, so are the disciples to the Son:
- as the Son is in the Father, so are the disciples in the Son;
- as the Father has sent the Son into the world, so the Son sends the disciples;
- as the Son reveals who the Father is, so his disciples are to reveal who the Son is.

In a twist about the very authorship of this unique gospel presentation of Jesus, the Son lies close to the heart of the Father (1:18) and the disciple who reveals this lies close to the heart of Jesus (13:23).

The verse cited above is in Jesus' speech about the way to the Father, which is the way to the Father in this life and the life beyond. The purpose of life is to live in the Son and the Son in us, which means union with the Father through the Son. As other verses in the chapter and subsequent chapters disclose this union involves the Spirit which proceeds from the Father and the Son. The purpose of life is union with God Father Son and Holy Spirit.

Our responsibility as Christians is enormous. John's revelation is that through Jesus we meet God and through us the world meets Jesus.

But which Jesus does the world meet when it meets me, or you, or all of us together as 'the church'?

If the world meets the wrong Jesus, some pale imitation perhaps, or some vague almost indiscernible figure, what on earth will it understand about God?


15 comments:

Michael Reddell said...

Peter

On your question:

"But which Jesus does the world meet when it meets me, or you, or all of us together as 'the church'?

"If the world meets the wrong Jesus, some pale imitation perhaps, or some vague almost indiscernible figure, what on earth will it understand about God?

I thought this piece - an extract from a new book - offered a sobering and challenging perspective.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/may/how-we-forgot-holiness-of-god.html

Jeaan said...

Oh a topic I can enjoy : )

Growing up in a traditional Anglican Church it was never spelt out to me (sorry for any offense) that our access to God is through Jesus. Somehow though even as a child as I prayed to God I intrinsically knew it went 'via' Jesus. It wasn't until many years later that I realised the extent to which we identify with Jesus.

Many years ago during a period of bad health I was not sleeping at nights and I remember consoling myself while talking to Jesus during the night before Good Friday, "even if I feel really alone you are with me, you too were alone this night right" (ie: His disciples fell asleep). You can imagine me be a little open mouthed at the service the next morning when our minister started with, "I was praying last night and I got a real sense Jesus was telling me He was lonely..." It was an astounding thought that our identity is so closely connected to Jesus he experiences what happens to us.

As my heart still comes to grips with, "It is not I who live but Christ who liveth in me". Letting Jesus work through me and direct me, is parallel to getting to know Him more. Nevertheless, he did put this treasure in jars of clay so people would know it comes from Him and not us. I remember being surprised when what I thought of as a 'holy' person had certain normal human characteristics. : )

I don't think I would term living as one with Christ though as our purpose, rather our desire and the centre out of which we live. I see our purposes as being unique to each one of us...."I created you for a purpose to do good works which I prepared in advance."

As for others seeing Jesus in us. I have always liked the verse, "They will know you are my disciples by your love, one for another." I think this is the hope for our church because genuine love, compassion in action, is a compelling thing. Evidence of the success of the film Gardening with Soul, shows our society does crave this kind of love. As you infer Peter the challenge is to be constantly aware of how we are in Christ and how our position should influence our actions.

The other day I went for a walk and saw blossom on an autumn tree, and multiple shoots coming out of an almost dead stump. I believe there is new life to come in our church. "Look I am doing a new thing...."

An essay again, oops.

Peter Carrell said...

Thanks Michael and Jean
That is a sobering extract at the link ...

Bryden Black said...

One of my delights has been to work my way again and again through this FG, with unashamed help from the likes of many Biblical Commentaries. In particular, I recall well the first time I came across RE Brown’s pointing out the three conditional aspects to 14:15-17, 18-21, 23-24. This triadic pattern parallels nicely the Trinity, enriching our understanding of what mutual indwelling might mean. Since the goal of the FG is the Father’s begetting more sons and daughters in the Son through the glorious gift of the Holy Spirit, how this is brought about, notably by means of the perichoretic nature of things, is always a bit tricky to grasp (I fancy).

At least this section, addressing love after first addressing faith in the previous section, by means of obedience to Jesus’ “word”/“truth” - the topic of the following section again - helpfully unpacks something of these perichoretic dynamics of mutual indwelling. So; many thanks for drawing our attention to this gem of spiritual insight: may our dwelling place(s) be indeed the Glory of the Triune God’s Light and Life and Love, in faith & hope, peace & love.

Chris Spark said...

In terms of HOW we might reveal Jesus, I wonder if two sides of the important bits of John's Gospel are helpful: 1) the one Jean mentioned above - that we love one another (at least then they will know we are his disciples, though I'm not sure that's quite the same as meeting him, and 2) the purpose statement of the Gospel - John 20:30-31 - 'these are written that you may know...' - and that in combination with the eyewitness claims in 19 and the end of 21.
With those in place perhaps John envisaged that as people meet us, they would meet Jesus according to his eyewitness, in our words an (perhaps even) our passing on of his witness?
A thought.

Jean said...

Hi Chris

Yes definitely witnessing and testifying to God's word and how he has influenced it's our life!

Meeting Christ's disciples may not be the same as meeting Jesus, but Jesus can use us so they meet Him.

: ) Jean

Bryden Black said...

Jean/Chris,

Meeting Jesus; meeting his disciples: see Jn 17 in its entirety ...!

Father Ron Smith said...

"Since the goal of the FG is the Father’s begetting more sons and daughters in the Son through the glorious gift of the Holy Spirit, how this is brought about, notably by means of the perichoretic nature of things, is always a bit tricky to grasp (I fancy)." B.B.

Perichoretic or not; the biblical understanding is that Holy Baptism is the key to daughter/son-ship. The follow up is partly a factor of our willing receptivity of God's Spirit already dwelling within.

I agree with Jean and the Bible that Jesus said: "They will know you're my disciples by your love" - not by your cleverness, or your spirituality, but by your love. Quite a lesson to learn, It surely will take a lifetime.

A wee gem from today's 'New Daylight' - (after expressing the authors' problems with some of the O.T. 'smiting passages') she then quotes Hebrews 1:1 -

"Long ago, God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by a Son"

She then goes on to say this: 'The message of Jesus enables us to re-read every part of the Bible - through the lens of His non-violent, suffering love'.

The word love is at the very heart of God, which has spilled out into all creation, beckoning all to share at His Feast.

Christ is risen, Alleluia,
He IS risen Indeed, Alleluia!

Father Ron Smith said...

This is a quotation from a book commended by Michael Reddell - which mentions the words of an Arab guide conducting tourists around the sites of the Holy Land;

"God longs to come down to earth to redeem the righteous and judge the wicked," he said. "But there's a problem."

He leaned toward us and stretched out his arms like a scarecrow.

"His presence is like plutonium. Nothing can live when God comes near. If God came to earth, both the righteous and unrighteous would perish. We would all die!"

What this Arab guide has obviously not understood is that God has already come down to earth, when 'The Word became flesh' - in Jesus

My response is, with Paul, that Christ has already redeemed us -"Christ in us, the hope of glory" - we are called to be 'alter Christus'

Chris Spark said...

With Paul..""There is no one righteous, not even one..." - thank God for the incarnation which led by divine loving necessity to the cross and then to the resurrection. And then - Christ in us indeed!

Bryden Black said...

Thanks Ron for seemingly nailing this key Johannine matter for us. I’d simply point out however there is the rather interesting question of the relationship between the Holy Spirit and the rite: you claim a particular answer to be “biblical”.

A simple grasp of Church history and historical theology throws us a few curly ones; the actual rite with water (and its often concomitant rite with oil) has attracted a fair degree of debate. I’ll not pay any attention to the timing issue - whether babies or adults should be candidates - even if it’s actually linked to the more weighty matter. This focuses upon the supposed efficacy of the rite in and of itself. We are mostly beholden to the Latin Augustinian synthesis, from which the old BCP catechism extols its position: a sacrament is an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace. For all that, however, the Reformation still had to contend with a parcel of concerns, notable among which is the question what are we to make of the seeming non efficacy of the baptismal rite in some/many cases? An extreme answer was the Anabaptist Movement: dunk them again folks! The more Evangelical wing of the CoE - especially before the Oxford Movement’s influence - tended to resolve the question by attending to my second major issue, to which we’ll come below. The 20th C has raised this question of efficacy from another though related angle. How might we contend with the Pentecostal claim that there is properly a full(er) blessing that Christians should embrace, Baptism in the Holy Spirit? This question drives home the key and vital concern: how are the elements of water and the Holy Spirit duly related in the business of Christian Initiation? (See for example Peter’s threefold answer, Acts 2:38-9.) Hyper Sacramentalists conflate the two, simply adjuring the water just conveys the Spirit - full stop. On the other hand, those of an extreme Evangelical persuasion (Anglican or Baptist) claim there’s no real tie; baptism is a testimony after the event of conversion itself. And there are positions held in between.

The second key issue can be highlighted by referencing the NT Catechetical scheme, which pops its head up in many places throughout the Epistles, and which clearly formed the backbone of the NT Church’s formation of its members. There’s not space on this blog for unpacking the entire schema; suffice to gesture only these references. Because you have been crucified with Christ, now put to death; because you have been raised with Christ, now put on - the New Man. The sheer grammar spells it out: past indicative passive verbs are complemented by present imperative active ones. In addition, the parallels between 1 Cor 10:1-11 and 12:13, alongside the overall thrust of chs 10-14, clearly show in Paul’s mind there is nothing exactly ‘magical’ about the sacrament itself; there are no guarantees, as it were. Rather, there lies the real possibility for baptized Christians to live either according to the flesh or according to the Spirit; and the way of the flesh leads to not inheriting the kingdom of God (Gal 5:21 in context).

So may I suggest a return to more exegesis of the FG: my summary still stands tall.

Father Ron Smith said...

I make no such claims for MYSELF, Bryden. I reckon humility is the key to the Kingdom. "Not by might, not by power but by my Spirit" says The Lord!

Also, I believe that the grace of Holy Baptism is from God - almost irrespective of our quality of reception - Or even our intellectual understand of its efficacy. "Behold, I bring you a mystery!"

Christ is Risen, Alleluia!

Father Ron Smith said...

"Hyper Sacramentalists conflate the two, simply adjuring the water just conveys the Spirit - full stop. On the other hand, those of an extreme Evangelical persuasion (Anglican or Baptist) claim there’s no real tie; baptism is a testimony after the event of conversion itself. And there are positions held in between"

- Dr. Bryden Black -

I wouldn't know about 'hyper-sacramentalists, Bryden; but I do know something about catholics - whether of the Roman, Byzantine, Anglican ir Lutheran rite; who believe in the total efficacy of Holy Baptism - by water and the Holy Spirit.

The use of Chrismation (anointing with Holy Oil) is accessed in many Anglo-catholic churches like St. Michael's, together with the presentation of a baptismal candle - lit from the Paschal Candle - as further outward and visible signs of the gift of the Holy Spirit together with the Light of Christ.

These additional aids to a fuller understanding of what is going on in Baptism are not 'essentials' but they are meant to sacramentally intensify the experience.

Baptism with water and the invocation of the three-fold Name of God are the basic elements of Holy Baptism, which may - in extremis - be undertaken by any lay Christian!

However this may be followed by a church ceremony of what is called 'Conditional Baptism' - "if not already baptised, I baptise you in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit......"

N.B. One cannot be baptised twice. Initial Baptism bestows the gift of the Holy Spirit - whether the recipient is aware of it or not!

Confirmation is not a re-gifting of the Holy Spirit, but rather, the renewal (re-awakening) of the Holy Spirit already within the life of the Baptised. This is a ceremony that is also available
on Holy Saturday, at the Easter Blessing of the new Waters of Baptism at the Font.

Simple - and yet profound!

Bryden Black said...

Thanks Ron for the catechism class! I will say but two final things as I reckon we are going nowhere fast with this ...

1. I wonder what you made of G.W.H. Lampe, The Seal of the Spirit (SPCK 2nd ed. 1967)? He is of your ilk.

2. One of the key things I used to say to any student was: theology is learning what the questions are; and then learning to formulate them as best as we may.

I close with Eph 4:21-24, as we prepare for the Feast of the Ascension.

Father Ron Smith said...

"2. One of the key things I used to say to any student was: theology is learning what the questions are; and then learning to formulate them as best as we may."
- Dr. Brydfewn Black -

Yes, I've heard that somewhere before, Bryden - in my own learning experience. What it really adds up to is the argument that we can never know enough about God - a reality.

However, I offered the catchismal exercise because you did not seem to have obtained the same sort of teaching as was given to me - very early on in my spiritual formation, and I did not want you to miss out on the basics.

"When the spirit comes, S/He will lead you into ALL the Truth" - Jesus.