Saturday, July 30, 2016

To my detractors!?

Yesterday I posted a link to a Tobias Stone article about the coming world war three.

Subsequently commenters here rounded on the article.

Fair enough.

BUT.

I see in the NZ Herald that this article is gaining traction, doing the rounds, contributing to the zeitgeist ...

29 comments:

Andrei said...

" 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


Reading the original article and the Herald's take on it brings this to mind

It never occurs to these people that the crisis we are facing might be a result of Western actions - how history will record the next great conflict if there is anyone left to write it will depend upon who prevails of course

But it is undeniable that in complete violation of International Law it was the USA and Great Britain that invaded Iraq in 2003 and dismantled all organs of Government and that Iraq is yet to recover from this depredation

The same is true for Libya which was the Nation for all its faults where the people enjoyed the highest standard of living on the African continent and it has been trashed - Hillary Clinton was the US secretary of State when that crime against humanity was committed.

South Sudan was another of her projects that is going up in smoke

The secret and illegal war conducted against Yemen barely made the press

Who really is acting aggressively here?

Andrei said...

" Indeed, Putin and Trump have formed a mutual admiration society of sorts and have not been shy about blowing the other's trumpet."


I posted a video the other day of a CNN reporter asking Putin about his remarks about Donald Trump and they don't amount much - certainly nothing remotely resembling "a mutual admiration society"

The propaganda we are being subject too would make Joseph Goebbels blush

Shawn Herles said...

The NZ media is uniformly Liberal-Left, and engages in the "right wing=Nazis" tactic that the Liberal-Left uses as a substitute for thinking and debate. So hardly a surprise that the Herald is promoting Stone's vapid tripe.

Peter Carrell said...

Incidentally, New Zealand's own experience of the Russian threat to civilization coming to nothing is a series of nineteenth century forts which housed big guns pointing out to sea ... and only used for practice rounds!

Jean said...

It is extremely hard in this part of the world to understand how anyone can take Trump seriously. And if they can then one has to be seriously worried about the state of such a society... I watched one of hs political promo videos which might have well been entitled, "I am the Best my Daughter will tell you so (subtitle: don't ask my first two wives)" and "Other nations are stealing our jobs (subtitle: please ignore I was quite happy to exploit cheap labourers to build my own empire)". Seriously.

In this the article Peter references contains some truth, Trump appeals to any nationalistic or emotional weak spot in people's armour to get them onside - he tells them what they want to hear. Isn't that like the ultimate in political propoganda, the simplest of tactics to win votes.

Meanwhile it is somewhat heartening to see Mugabe is being challenged from within and by Christians staging non-violent protests.

I feel for the many attacks France has endured of late. I pray for wisdom, remembering historically the higher number of Muslims in their population extends more from their past colonial relationships with Algeria than Asylum seekers. It also appears there is some truth in the disenfrachisement of ethnic groups or socio-economic groups which can lead people to being vulnerable to be 'used' by anyone who offers them a sense of purpose or meaning. No doubt nearly every community in the world has experience with this.

To end on this note one of the significant differences between t he end of WWI and WWII is the treatment of Germany after the end of WWI and the huge burden of reparation payments. This mistake was not made to the same extent after WWII - Britain helped re-build their infrastructure at the end of the war; also the founder of Save the Children (incidently lead by a vision of Christ on the Cross) campaigned and rallied the British to send aid to help German children on the premise all children in need have a right to the necessities of life regardless of their background). It seems Peter mercy reaps a harvest better than vengance : )

Andrei said...

I think the problem is Peter that you are literally unaware of the stupid games that are going on in Eastern Europe and have been for some while

That cretin Joe Biden today called Vladimir Putin a Dictator and the (you might not let the adjective that should go here stand) Hillary Clinton has already likened him to Hitler

Try reading this instead of Liberal tosh

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/07/22/armageddon-approaches-paul-craig-roberts/

Peter Carrell said...

That is tosh too, Andrei.

Andrei said...

Well then listen to Putin himself then - remember the Cuban missile crisis

We are there again now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo

Peter Carrell said...

Hi Andrei
It is not tosh to critically reflect on (e.g.) who is making missiles, shifting them here or there, keeping agreements or ognoring them; nor is it tosh to carefully analyse whether the West understands the Ukraine, Russia, Turkey, Syria, etc or has become victim to its own propaganda; nor is it tosh to always reckon with Russia's essentially benign outlook on the world as a whole providing it feels safe from aggression near the countries that border it, let alone its actual borders.

What is tosh is to imagine that everything the USA does involves some kind of hidden secret government within a government as Paul Craig Roberts does. (I am not denying that powers within governing circles may be manouvering here and there re military matters such as you have pointed to, but to allege, on the basis of some CIA funding decades ago that the EU is essentially a tool of this government within the US government is, in my frank view, not just nuts but unevidenced nuts).

Andrei said...

I only gave you Paul Craig Roberts because he is an English language source with a different point of view from the author you linked - he did work for many years within the higher echelons of the American Government though

Stephen Cohen might have been a better choice on reflection

Neither of us wants WW3 and this thread and its predecessor are on that topic and I can tell you I believe it is coming and that will be a result of American hubris

Your Author for example describes Vladimir Putin as "a dictator". Is thus true do you think? Do you know how Russian democracy is organized? Most people have no idea about this and demonizing Putin as a dictator is dehumanizing him and readying the population at large ready to accept war and all the actions that could lead to it.

You need to walk in other peoples shoes - the casting of Russian sports people as drug cheats is part of the campaign to dehumanize Russians. On the TV News the McLean report was describes as "startling revelations" not as allegations and those accused were never given an opportunity to defend themselves - not by the report writer nor by anybody else

The so called independent arbitrators who upheld the ban on the Russian Track and Field team were an Englishman, an American and an Italian all NATO nations - now how do you think that looks to the average Russian (like a fix? It was)

And this is just one example of how Russian people are being rendered in the public mind as somehow less than human and scurrilous

How do you think it looks to Russian people when American armoured columns parade 300 meters from the Russian border as they did in Estonia recently?

You have an affinity with the English speaking world and your world view is formed by what we might call the Trans Atlantic elite - nothing wrong with that but their interests are not necessarily yours and certainly not those of a young mother from Volgograd who has had her rights trampled over (reference too obscure?)

Brendan McNeill said...

Hi Peter

Andrei is right in his assessment of the Herald. The same description could be applied to all of the mainstream media in NZ. It is universally leftish in its predisposition. (note I didn’t use the word bias).

Australia on the other hand has at least one conservative publication in The Australian, and shows on SkyNews like ‘The Bolt Report’ which give some much needed balance to the ABC over there, and our State broadcaster here.

The Herald prefers to imagine the greatest threat to western civilization comes from Vlad Putin. The most obvious threat conflicts with their hierarchy of victimhood so consequently they must search for alternatives – any alternative is preferable to facing the present reality.

Besides, we are woefully ignorant of historical ownership of land in the region we now call ‘the Ukraine’ and the Crimea. We also appear to have forgotten that the present ‘government’ there actually overthrew a democratically elected government, however the USA seems to have no problem supporting this ‘regime’ because it suits them. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I would not be surprised if the CIA was funding the destabilization of the previous Government, just as they are supporting the ‘rebels’ who are attempting the overthrow of Assad. How did this strategy work out in Iraq, Egypt and Libya?

We can probably thank Putin for bringing some stability to Syria. Just imagine the bloodshed should one or more of the USA funded ‘rebels’ assume power in that country.

Don’t expect much reporting on that from the Herald.

Glen Young said...

Hi Peter,
We only buy the NZ Herald from time to time,for paper to start the wood burner.
However,you may be interested in the BREAKING NEWS,the Clinton team has found a new drug free treatment for insomnia.Billy'who never had you know what'sleeps through Hillary's speach. Appears on Facebook,seated between Kaine and his daughter,fast asleep;under the caption,'Wake up America,Even Bill is tired of listening to Hillary's LIES'.
Regards,Glen.

Rosemary Behan said...

Referring to Brendan's post, I always felt I missed something with regard to President Assad. I had English visitors recently who didn't have a good word to say about him, so I asked, what is it he has done? I couldn't get a response. Why is that? This man was educated in England, did they do such a bad job of it? Why is it that we must take the media's voice that this man is bad, bad, bad .. where does it come from?

Brendan McNeill said...

Hi Rosemary

Assad is a brutal dictator that represses dissent as did his father, in true Middle East fashion. By any standard he is an appalling leader. However, in the Middle East you get one of three choices:

1) Brutal Dictator
2) The Military
3) The Mullahs.

Turkey is a Muslim country in transition towards (1) above.

I don’t celebrate Assad; he is just the ‘least worst option’ for Syira. He did uphold some form of civil society and in the Middle East that's not nothing.

Peter Carrell said...

Dear Andrei
My own view of Putin is that he is not a dictator, rather he is a continuation of a Russian tendency to vest its power in a strong leader.

I do not view the drug cheat circus around Russian athletes as anything to do with the politics of the West v Russia. It is pretty simple: either they have and are cheating or they are not. That has nothing to do with whether the officials are from NATO countries. If there is some kind of conspiracy of such countries to ban Russia from the Olympics, it appears to have failed dismally as the IOC has zigzagged and backtracked to the alarm of many athletes and lower level officials from individual nations.

Shouldn't we focus on the geopolitics if WW3 is coming rather than what happens in sports? In another sport, such as cycling, it is well know that another set of nations than Russia have had problems over the years until finally outed ...

Peter Carrell said...

Dear detractors of the MSM including the NZ Herald,
My own survey of commentary in our MSM is that there is a mixed bag of commentary. The NZ Herald, for instance, has Rodney Hide. Hardly a leftie! In my reading of NZ leftwing political blogs I see the Herald regularly chided for cheerleading for the National Party. If you want to claim something slightly different, that the MSM would not known any worldview other than the secular, Western, mostly liberal socially, mostly neo liberal economically, biased towards the States, agin China, Russia etc, and enthralled to Hollywood and other media praise of free sexuality, then I will join the chorus. But I don't find the "leftie" criticism particularly persuasive.

Besides, the Herald has the best set of sportswriters this side of the ditch, with that well known atheist, Peter Fitzsimons competing well on the other side of the ditch (but for Fairfax paper SMH). So, I for one will keep reading!

Brendan McNeill said...

Hi Peter

It’s difficult to know where to begin with the Herald. Yes, the do run opinion pieces from Rodney Hide, and have previously from Bob Jones, but they are outliners and are usually careful not to stray too far off the reservation.

The Herald championed ‘marriage equality’, the decriminalization of prostitution, is supportive of euthanasia, and has been happy to demonize Destiny Church, Gloriavale and most recently and quite sarcastically the Senior Pastor of Hill Song over his apparent wealth and his father’s pedophilia.

If that weren’t enough, they occasionally run puff pieces on Islam helping all us to better understand who are and are not the real Muslims within the religions global conflict, and to reassure us that we have nothing to fear from Islam but fear itself.

Sure, they may be supportive of the National party when it comes to economics – why wouldn’t they, the National party has embraced all things Labour has done in the past, and when it’s felt the need moved further to the left – increases in welfare payments, increased the quota of refugee’s from Muslim conflicts and so on, a percentage of whom have ended up on our SIS terrorist watch list (or their children have).

When it comes to the ‘culture wars’ the Herald has pitched its tent with the progressive left.

But you are correct about one thing. They are fine when it comes to sport, bread and circuses.

Rosemary Behan said...

I don't understand Brendan. If he's so bad, why do the Christians in that country support him? Why do they feel we in the West have abandoned them? Abandoned the Christians I mean. They say they gave Paul to the world, but we have forsaken them. I don't who to believe, I'm just thankful that God is in control.

Andrei said...

He's not so bad Rosemary - he is an eye surgeon and a very gentle man in demeanor/

He just stands in the way of Saudi, Qatari and American plans for the real estate he administers accordance with UN charter - i.e. he represents legitimate authority in Syria

Things are moving fast Civilians are being evacuated from Aleppo in readiness for the final assault on the nest of vipers who occupy it.

Turkey has stopped the flow of arm to the moderate rebels in Syriawhile Turkish Police have surrounded NATO’s Incirlik air base - and it is planes from there that were implicated in the coup attempt

NATO is loosing Turkey it seems though getting rid of them may be hard and the rabid Neocons in Washington will never stand for that

Meanwhile the Baltic is getting a bit crowded

Reread the Guns of August last night

carl jacobs said...

Good grief. In the first place, that article doesn't deserve the description of analysis. The chain of events from Brexit to WWIII was less believable than the plot of "Iron Eagle". And that's saying something. Here's an example. Trump says he won't honor Article V guarantees to the Baltic states. Well, guess what. No American President is going to risk war with Russia over Latvia - whether he says it in public or not. That Article V guarantee is a bluff. NATO is being used as a political tool to solidify Europe. That's why all these SE European countries have been included. They bring nothing to NATO and don't warrant an American security pledge. But they advance the unification agenda of the New Hapsburg Empire ... ummm ... EU. So a huge number of Article V guarantees have been extended that will never be honored. That is a significant problem for NATO in that it undermines its central pledge.

And if the article is gaining traction, that traction is probably isolated to a particular part of the political spectrum. The article is really an extended angsty whine about the general decline of Social Democratic parties combined with the tendency of the left/center left to think of itself as the barrier between civilization and barbarism. "Good God! We are losing control of things. That can only mean HITLER IS COMING BACK! WAR III IS JUST OVER THE HORIZON!"

Whatever. You would think that someone on the continent of Europe could figure out how to create a military that wasn't a glorified jobs program. As it stands the combined military power of continental Europe couldn't force the crossing of a road against the resistance of a determined crossing guard. How could it fight a war?

MichaelA said...

Rosemary, its not actually the case that all Christians in Syria support Assad. There is a range of opinion among Syrian Christians, just as there is among us.

My impression is that Christians in Syria tend to watch all power groups (including Assad) very carefully, because any of them can turn on the Christians at any time, if it suits them.

MichaelA said...

"Well, guess what. No American President is going to risk war with Russia over Latvia"

That's an easy thing to say, and impossible to prove or disprove. But it would be more true to say that no Russian president is going to rusk war with NATO over Latvia.

The Kremlin generals found a major problem in Ukraine: With the exception of Crimea, the largely Russian-speaking population of eastern Ukraine did not support the Russian/separatist forces as liberators, but in many cases volunteered to join the defence forces. Casualties were very heavy on both sides, and the Russians/separatists only hold 7% of Ukraine, which includes Crimea, even though the separatist uprisings occurred through eastern Ukraine, i.e. half the country. That is an indication of their failure.

If the Russian-speaking populations of the Baltic states are similarly prepared to resist any Russian aggression, the result would be very messy for the Kremlin and very slow. And those are NATO countries with NATO forces rotating through them. At any time there are Belgian or Italian aircraft on station there, Czech, US and other ground forces etc.

Putin will make a lot of noise, but it will require extreme provocation before he sends troops into the Baltics. More likely into Belarus first, or the Central Asian states.

Andrei said...

The Kremlin generals found a major problem in Ukraine: With the exception of Crimea, the largely Russian-speaking population of eastern Ukraine did not support the Russian/separatist forces as liberators, but in many cases volunteered to join the defence forces. Casualties were very heavy on both sides, and the Russians/separatists only hold 7% of Ukraine, which includes Crimea, even though the separatist uprisings occurred through eastern Ukraine, i.e. half the country. That is an indication of their failure.

You have no idea of what you are talking about

There are over a million refugees from Ukraine in Russia as we speak

The USA has made war on the people of Ukraine by subverting its political processes and replacing an Elected Government with one of its choosing that has taken a hostile stance to Russia at great cost to their own people

Ukraine was the richest and most developed region in the Soviet Union before it fell but after years of American malfeasance and meddling it has been transformed into a European Somalia

The last visit of President Putin to Kiev

Shawn Herles said...

I strongly support Trump's plan for a more constructive and cooperative approach with Russia and Putin, but this is going to require movement on both sides. Some Americans, especially in the Democrat and Neocon parts of the political establishment, need to stop fighting the cold war and seeing Russia and Putin as threats. On the other hand some Russians need to stop pretending that everything is America's fault and that Putin and Russia are always the innocent victims of the "godless" West. Geopolitical realities in Eastern Europe are far more complex than that.

Andrei said...

Geopolitical realities in Eastern Europe are far more complex than that.

They are Shawn - the cultural fault line between the East and West runs through Western Ukraine and has for hundreds of years

And some really terrible things have happened there (and we are talking about Eastern Poland, Western Belarus, Hungary and Slovakia as well as Western Ukraine) which people remember - some of them within living memory

But that sad history does not belong to the lands East of the Dnieper nor to Crimea

And all of this was supposed to be resolved at the end of WW2 by border changes and population exchanges

The USA today is just continuing the policies of the Austrian Empire in the 19th century and Adolf Hitler in the 20th - these things have a resonance

Peter Carrell said...

I think I have said this to you before, Andrei, but my children carry the DNA of Lvov in their blood, courtesy of Stalin exiling their grandfather to Siberia in 1940!

Shawn Herles said...

"The USA today is just continuing the policies of the Austrian Empire in the 19th century and Adolf Hitler in the 20th - these things have a resonance.

The USA has partnered with Russia to carve up Poland? No wait, that was Hitler and Stalin.

They have "resonance" only of you assume Russia is always the inocent victim and the West always in the wrong. That, at best, is conveniant pseudo-history.

Many people in Eastern Europe, like Poland and the Baltics, see Putin as carrying out Russia's long history of imperialism in the East, and many see him as little different to Stalin in that regard.

Either way, we will make no progress if Russians insist on demonising the West and the USA and pretending they have clean hands.

There is fault on both sides.

Andrei said...

"The USA has partnered with Russia to carve up Poland? No wait, that was Hitler and Stalin."

That's your narrative Shawn

In your history books WW1 was a conflict that lasted from 1914-1918 but in Eastern Europe the conflict that started in 1914 did not really fully end until around 1956

Poland when it was reborn after WW1 was quite aggressive annexing bits of its neighbors - The Poles took Kiev in 1920 but the effect of this was to rally the local population to the Red Army thus delivering what is now much of Ukraine to the Bolsheviks

The Ukrainian SSR itself was formed with that name in the form it was to check Polish ambitions in the Western part of that region in 1922

The Poles did hold Galicia, where Peter's father in law originates (and I wasn't aware of that before) and some very nasty ethnic cleansing took place during the interwar years there

In 1938 during the Munich crisis the Poles also annexed parts of Czechoslovakia as Hitlers tanks rolled into the Sudetenland

I'm not posting this to get at pre war Poland but to show you that there were major problems in that region that were nominally settled in 1945 at the conclusion of WW2

And these problems have arisen because this is where the East meets the West - perhaps two different civilizations

We all have our buttons that can be pushed , you, me, Peter because we are sinful fallen creatures and we have to be careful that we do not let them be pushed to get us to do or accept things that are contrary to God's will

There will always be wars but we shouldn't play if we can help it but sometimes we can't help it

Shawn Herles said...

"And these problems have arisen because this is where the East meets the West - perhaps two different civilizations"

"Europe has two lungs, it will never breathe easily until it uses both of them" - John Paul 2.