Thursday, February 9, 2012

A little bit confused

Ok. Some of you think I am a lot confused!

Anyway, trying to make sense of the report in Thinking Anglicans re the C of E GS debate on women bishops. I think it means everything is on track to have women bishops, but the full and final legislation has not yet been passed ...

Sort of unrelated but I will note it here/today, an excellent post  at Catholicity and Covenant on what may seem to non-Americans a strange manner of disengagement from the public square.

8 comments:

Suem said...

I am glad you're confused too. I think that what you think is right...

Father Ron Smith said...

I think, Peter, that a careful reading of the 'Thinking Anglicans' article will give you a clearer understanding of the situation - vis-a-vis Women Bishops - than you appear to have gained so far.

What is happening is that Women Bishops will, in all probability, be approved at General Synod in the forthcoming July.

The present shenanigans are about whether, or not, the 'Archbishops' Amendment': which would provide a cast-iron protection of dissenters' right to receive episcopal ministry from a male 'untainted' bishop - without the 'interference of a female diocesan bishop.

The amendment to this effect is being support by very few of the diocese - the majority of which wanted the 'Code of Practice', that would involve a woman diocesan bishop conferring on a male 'Flying Bishop' the right to minister in her diocese, thus retaining the Diocesan's juridical 'authority' in her own diocese.

The few diocese that have - against the tide - voted to support the Archbishops' Amendment, have been allowed to present their case at the present meeting of the G.S. Thus, the Diocese of Manchester has been allowed to raise the issue.

The outcome of this G.S. will influence what sort of Motion will actually go to the July G.S., which will decide the case for or against the Ordination of Women to the Episcopate, and the terms agreed.

Pageantmaster said...

There was no confusion today, Peter+. What happened was a cynical and deliberate wrecking of a motion put forward by the Diocese of Manchester. I deal with what went on here:
http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/article/41082/#453961

Father Ron Smith said...

Well, the fact that Pageantmaster's article supporting the Manchester Diocesan attempt to high-jack the 'Code of Practice' agreed by last year's G.S. appears on Kendall Harmon's blog says it all.

P.M. is against women's unfettered control in her own diocese. However, he could still be disappointed. Justice may yet prevail at G.S. July.

Andrew Reid said...

Hi Peter,
The CofE General Synod has a fairly long and complicated process for approving legislation, especially when it affects worship or order of the church. The best overview I could find was in this paper, when they sent the women bishps legislation to the diocesan synods for their decision.
http://www.churchofengland.org/media/1232483/gsmisc964.pdf

Pageantmaster said...

Perhaps, but might not a comment like that coming from Fr Ron instead say it all?

If you were to read an intelligent gold standard blog like Canon Harmon's, Fr Ron, you might understand what I am actually in favour of and against. As Peter Ould tweeted this morning: "I'm of the school that if you cannot accurately represent your opponent's position you cannot reasonably argue against it."

I started off from a position of supporting women bishops, but as time and the bad behaviour of their supporters has gone on, this is less and less the case.

On yesterday's votes, the Measure will not achieve the 2/3 majority required in all three houses of bishops, clergy and laity, and nothing which happened yesterday will have improved the odds - quite the reverse.

Andrew Reid said...

Just found a better one, actually, which gives a timeframe for the future.
http://churchofengland.org/media/1386028/gs%20misc%201012%20-%20consecration%20of%20women%20to%20the%20episcopate%20future%20process.pdf

Father Ron Smith said...

Contrary to what Pageantmaster avers, I believe that the Ordination of Women Bishops in the Church of England will Proceed - in one way or another. It may take longer than some of us had hoped. But then, most of us in other part of the Communion are by now used to the dear old C.of E. lagging behind on justice issues that other forward-looking Provinces have already dealt with. Carpe diem!