Tuesday, July 4, 2017

Is this mid June 1914 for the Anglican Communion?

What to make of the this, that and the other of this Church Times report?

Is the Anglican Communion in the midst of the seemingly ad hoc, disconnected protests, skirmishes and sabre rattling which turn out to be the prelude to a "Great War"?


Tregonsee said...

Fortunately unlike the other "Great Conflicts," nobody except the participants will either notice or care. My less collateral damage. :)

Anonymous said...

Hi Peter, if the pastors are not following the faith, they cannot be surprised when their subordinates won't follow mere rules. This isn't unique to Anglicanism, it's something the Pope ignores at his peril.


Anonymous said...

Hi Peter; if the bishops aren't defending the faith, they can hardly expect their subordinates to obey mere rules. This isn't just a principle for Anglicans; the Pope could face similar disobedience. Who knows, we might have a second Pope soon.


Jean said...

There could be the odd similarity e.g. WWI didn't appear to have sound justification and the lack of 'forgiveness' afterwards could almost have been said to lay the foundation for the next war....!!

One thing I am beginning to realise the 'climate' in the Anglican Church and in the respective societies is quite different in different countries e.g. US, UK, NZ etc. For example from the generic feedback evangelicals in the UK are seen as ultra-conservative and not at all mainstream, and treated with suspicion. Yet mainstream churches in NZ include those that are evangelical in nature and are not considered a different species. Just one example.

And on the positive side it looks like England is on the receiving end of a lot of intentional mission, lets just pray the real intention is on mission not turf wars.

BrianR said...

Well, it's winter down under but up over it's summer and the minds of many are already on holiday.
But the collapse of 'western' Anglicanism over That Issue - and its failure to renew itself within the Anglosphere - seems inevitable. I don't say this with any pleasure whatsoever. But as the indigenous West abandons the Christian faith for secular liberalism (and especially sexual libertinism), established churches will not resist that pressure.
Scottish and Welsh 'Anglicanism' (odd ethnocentric word!) will not make it through another 8 years or so without catastrophic closures. The Gafcon consecrations will see a realignment of orthodox forces. Evangelical Anglicans outside the Establishment (and not encumbered with old buildings) are organising new congregations across England, though London is very much the focus of most of the work.
And the Establishment figures themselves will be rocked by what is coming.
Already George Carey has been forced out of his honorary post by his failures and inactions over Peter Ball's crimes. And Cranmer's latest page may portend worse things to come.

Peter Carrell said...

I have greater ambition than you, Nick!
As a keen student of history, I am looking forward to the day when we again have three (3) popes :)
Yes, looking around the globe and its various communions, bishops seem loath to defend the faith.
But then I wonder if that is because they discern that their congregations are loath to have it defended (because that might be uncomfortable for them!)

Anonymous said...

Hi Peter; I think we can all agree that three Popes is a tad excessive. I'm happy with one, though Francis isn't my favourite. As for bishops not defending the faith, a minority do and we are obviously grateful for them. We don't need many to stand up for the truth. They then usually open themselves up to attack from their far more tolerant brothers and sisters. Bishops who don't defend the faith are not necessarily driven by pastoral laziness. Some simply don't believe the orthodox faith. It will be interesting to see how English bishops vote on transgender services at their general synod. This (in my view) grotesque innovation will undoubtedly attract some support from those who like to define love in light of secular causes célèbres. Currently, there is no expectation of a second baptism.


Peter Carrell said...

Hi Nick
I think even hardened Protestants would find ecclesiological discussions easier if there is but one Pope. (Western ... the Copts have one too!)

I see the CofE GS approved this motion:

"That this Synod, recognising the need for transgender people to be welcomed and affirmed in their parish church, call on the House of Bishops to consider whether some nationally commended liturgical materials might be prepared to mark a person’s gender transition."

Nationally commended liturgical materials is not quite the same as doctrinally-agreed-by-all materials.