Anglican Down Under: Two views, two churches?

Monday, September 26, 2016

Two views, two churches?

From the airwaves ...

A heartfelt plea to find a way forward to end suicides of young gay persons, as documented in an evangelical church on a journey ...

Same-sex marriage is not the real deal, a view from a gay man ...

Also from Ron Smith's blog, a Belgian plea for SSB ... from a Catholic bishop!

Try holding that kind of difference in one church, maybe or maybe not (in England) ...

I have to say, as I realise I need to wrap up my own submission in the face of very few commenters here agreeing with it :), that there is a strength of logic, conviction, and passion which is driving this church in these islands Down Under to a schismatic situation.

Which voices, in the end, will prevail?

4 comments:

Andrei said...: Youth suicide is a problem, it takes more young lives than road accidents - it is not confined to "Gay youth"and it is boys who do it as opposed to girls in a ratio of about 4:1 in New Zealand

The solution to this issue does not lie in redefining marriage; September 26, 2016 at 11:27 AM
Andrei said...: The modern adjective "inclusive" to describe a church is deliberate obfuscation

The adjective "catholic" covers this, it means in modern English "universal" meaning all are welcome of course, which is true.

By prefixing a church with "inclusive" we see a code word that actually means homosexuality is celebrated in this establishment and perhaps this is not a church appropriate for families with young children

There is a phase of life (I remember it well) when you find your friends are starting families and their priorities change while until you join them (by starting your own) distances you from them in some small ways

After you start your family your life becomes child centric for some time and after they have grown you miss that, or I do, but you enjoy other peoples children; September 26, 2016 at 12:10 PM
danielj said...: Rev. Peter Ive read most of your posts over the last years...I believe you should be commended for your maturing, your efforts, and your compassion.

It is a lesson way back to the gospels, but still hard to swallow...when the reign of God manifests within the realm of religion, some will receive the good news as a blessing, others will wail under the imposition of a curse. "I came not to bring peace, but a sword"

Blessings Daniel; September 26, 2016 at 4:34 PM
Peter Carrell said...: Thanks Andrei and Daniel; September 26, 2016 at 5:22 PM

Anglican Down Under

Welcome to this blog on Anglican, theological, biblical and other matters, mostly missional or liturgical (but I reserve the right to write about cricket and politics). It is grounded in some islands at the bottom of the world which, together with a large island to our west, constitute fabulous Down Under.

I have two related blogs which I post on less frequently:

Hermeneutics and Human Dignity

Resourcing Preaching and Worship Down Under

I am Bishop of the Diocese of Christchurch in the Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia (ACANZP). I am trying to write in ways which contribute to the flourishing of the church of God - a church represented in the Anglican Communion, in the Anglican churches of these islands and, of course, in my Diocese. You will judge whether I am succeeding or not!

Pearls

Show us anything clearly set forth in Holy Scripture that we do not teach and we will teach it. Show us anything in our teaching or practice is clearly contrary to Holy Scripture, and we will abandon it.

Stephen Neill

For the glory of God is a human being fully alive, and the glory of humanity is the vision of God.

St Irenaeus

Fundamentally the Gospel is obsessed with the idea of the unity of human society.

Masure

We have returned to the Apostles and the old Catholic Fathers. We have planted no new religion, but only preserved the old that was undoubtedly founded and used by the Apostles of Christ and other holy Fathers of the Primitive Church.

Bishop Jewel

Preachers shall behave themselves modestly and soberly in every department of their life. But especially shall they see to it that they teach nothing in the way of a sermon, which they would have religiously held and believed by the people, save what is agreeable to the teaching of the Old or New Testament, and what the Catholic fathers and ancient bishops have collected from this selfsame doctrine.

Canon 6 from the 1571 Bishop’s Convocation

Kent: "See better, Lear, and let me still remain."

William Shakespeare

For the clarity that we are aiming at is indeed complete clarity. But this simply means that the philosophical problems should completely disappear.

Wittgenstein

Justice is eternal, and doesn't depend at all on human conventions.

Montesquieu

The real challenge of Islam to Western intellectual discourse is for us to ask ourselves whether our unprecedented modern experiment of conducting political life with no transcendent values is really working out as well as we once hoped.

Harvey Cox

The long-term happiness of a society depends on how individuals behave towards each other, how families hold together, and how leaders keep the trust of people.

William Hague

Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed.

John Neuhaus

To be an evangelical is not, first and foremost, about doctrinal correctness, but about a passion for the gospel of salvation from sin through Christ for eternity.

John Richardson

Neither may we ... lightly esteem what hath been allowed as fit in the judgement of antiquity, and by the long continued practice of the whole church; from which unnecessarily to swerve, experience hath never as yet found it safe.

Richard Hooker (Lawes, V.7.1)

The function of the Christian canon was to separate the apostolic witness from the ongoing tradition of the church, whose truth was continually in need of being tested by the apostolic faith.

Brevard S. Childs

Every word of God proves true. (Proverbs 30:5)

If the people of this religion are asked about the proof for the soundness of their religion, they flare up, get angry and spill the blood of whoever confronts them with this question. They forbid rational speculation, and strive to kill their adversaries. This is why truth became thoroughly silenced and concealed.

Muhammad ibn Zakariya Razi

Change comes through ordinary working people organising themselves to struggle for a better world day in, day out.

Morning Star newspaper editorial Tuesday 5 May 2015

"In the soft grey silence he could hear the bump of the balls: and from here and from there through the quiet air the sound of the cricket bats: pick, pack, pock, puck: like drops of water in a fountain falling softly in the brimming bowl."

James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man

Moderation Policy

Ad hominem attacks, potentially libellous comments, and comments with the appearance of being generated by a machine are liable to be rejected. Try hard not to use these words and their cognates: bigot, hypocrite, homophobia. Figure it out!

My strong preference here is for NO anonymous commenters. Please supply at least a first name. Some non de plumes allowed here belong to people I know personally. Anonymous comments published here likely pass on content grounds. Anonymity combined with ad hominems = strike out.

Pages

Monday, September 26, 2016

Two views, two churches?

4 comments: